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Do you have a link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Google is not turning up anything but contradictory sources for me.

Do you have a link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Google is not turning up anything but contradictory sources for me. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-29818-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-29818-z https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1600019113 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1600019113 (Trigger warning for you: the Nature Comms article makes contrasts with "capitalist" fisheries)

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Sure! It’s from this book [1]. Decreasing oyster size (implying younger harvests) in New York mounds was explicitly contrasted with the sustainable extraction from the Chesapeake Bay. (None of your sources mention the Hudson.) Better delineation than capitalist and indigenous might be trading and non-trading. > trigger warning This is a needless way to undercut oneself. (It’s also mean.) [1] https://www.amazon.com/Big-Oyster-History-Half-Shell/dp/0345476395\\\\\\ https://www.amazon.com/Big-Oyster-History-Half-Shell/dp/0345...*
- tomjakubowski 4y ago
  Thanks. You're right, those sources do not mention Hudson Bay, despite my Google search including the words. I should know better. I've recently started enjoying oysters and other shellfish so I'll add the book to my reading list. Looks very interesting! edit: "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York? The first source I linked doesn't mention the river either, but second source does claim no prehistoric declines of oyster sizes in the Hudson River estuary. Still going to read the book and then make my up my mind
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York? New York, New York. The natives piled mounds of shells. Over generations, these grew formidable [1]. (“Midden” [2]. Pearl Street gets its name from a Lenape midden [3].) [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/science/native-americans-shell-middens-maine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/science/native-americans-... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Street_(Manhattan) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Street_(Manhattan)

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> link to more on indigenous/pre-colonial overfishing of oysters in Hudson Bay? Sure! It’s from this book [1]. Decreasing oyster size (implying younger harvests) in New York mounds was explicitly contrasted with the sustainable extraction from the Chesapeake Bay. (None of your sources mention the Hudson.) Better delineation than capitalist and indigenous might be trading and non-trading. > trigger warning This is a needless way to undercut oneself. (It’s also mean.) [1] https://www.amazon.com/Big-Oyster-History-Half-Shell/dp/0345476395\\\\\\ https://www.amazon.com/Big-Oyster-History-Half-Shell/dp/0345...*

tomjakubowski 4y ago
Thanks. You're right, those sources do not mention Hudson Bay, despite my Google search including the words. I should know better. I've recently started enjoying oysters and other shellfish so I'll add the book to my reading list. Looks very interesting! edit: "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York? The first source I linked doesn't mention the river either, but second source does claim no prehistoric declines of oyster sizes in the Hudson River estuary. Still going to read the book and then make my up my mind
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > "New York mounds" -- is this about Hudson Bay (the one in Canada) or the Hudson River estuary, in New York? New York, New York. The natives piled mounds of shells. Over generations, these grew formidable [1]. (“Midden” [2]. Pearl Street gets its name from a Lenape midden [3].) [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/science/native-americans-shell-middens-maine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/science/native-americans-... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Street_(Manhattan) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Street_(Manhattan)