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Talking about mental health is extremely challenging. On one extreme there is stupid: the people who believe none of this science is a form of health, or even r

Talking about mental health is extremely challenging. On one extreme there is stupid: the people who believe none of this science is a form of health, or even real. On the other hand there is the disabled: the people who likely have undiagnosed mental health disorders themselves and are incapable of processing any of these conversations. Such failures to process these vital concerns touch wide reaching aspects of discourse from politics to work to culture generally and that is quite a problem.

psychphysic 4y ago
A key issue is also that even within mental health services there is animosity towards psychiatry. Whatever one thinks of antidepressants or antipsychotics (maybe less mood stabilizers I think), psychologists hate them. And I think while psychiatrists see psychology as helpful for their patients, psychologists can see the use of medications as a failure. I could say more but I think I'll just leave it at that.
- knaik94 4y ago
  I would appreciate it if you did say more. I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that psychologists hate medicine. In most cases psychologist and psychiatrist work together to provide treatment to a patient. Why would psychologists see the use of medicine as failure?
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    Here's a nice article on it [2] > In addition, the qualitative aspect of therapist views showed that, perhaps above and beyond this, therapists feel the impact of psychiatric drugs on the therapeutic relationship. While some felt that drugs could improve client engagement, there was a strong feeling that their effects (and side effects) had a negative impact on clients' ability to work therapeutically. > Having to take meds can be viewed as failure by some therapists which is not helpful to clients. (Respondent 906) One of the therapists even calls out other therapists about seeing medication and failure. Probably better to read the whole thing but boils down to psychologists don't like medications. [2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/capr.12403 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/capr.12403 ########### Forget all this gonna do a stream of consciousness as it's late here, the topic is pretty overdone and constantly attracts hate and honestly this is opening a can of worms but effectively you will see many many psychiatrists and doctors in general refer patients to psychological intervention. Psychologists recommending someone seek medications is nearly nonexistent. Why? I suspect its similar to the divide between doctors and midwives. Midwives can occasionally see caesarian sections as 'cheating' and labour a right of passage for women. Psychologists do something very similar, psychotherapy is a protracted unpleasant affair something that is worn as a badge of honour by those that undertake it. Then someone takes a pill and says well to be honest I won't bother. That irks some. But more to the point, there are also audits and overall several pushes to reduce usage of psychotropics [0]. So it can literally feel like a failure as a psychologist if one of your patients has to start taking a medication and later in the week you literally have to track that a failure. [1] is a recent interview in BPS (British psychological society) about a psychologists who started an organisation for evidence based psychiatry. CEP receive funding from Scientology. The most prominent UK psychology society promoting a piece about an cult funded body that opposes medicines. If you spend any time looking you will find psychology is rife with anti-psychiatry. This is just the article from the past few months that came to mind. [0] https://www.england.nhs.uk/learning-disabilities/improving-health/stamp/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/learning-disabilities/improving-h... [1] https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/medical-model-has-presided-over-four-decades-flat-lining-outcomes https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/medical-model-has-presid...
  - throwaway0asd 4y ago
    Psychiatrists prescribe medications and psychologists perform counseling. The role of prescriptive medication is to modify behavior that either increases focus or stabilizes emotionally heterogeneous states. That medication is often issued in consultation between a psychiatrist and the treating psychologist to enhance receptivity to counseling (or other social contexts) otherwise it may interfere.
    - knaik94 4y ago
      Psychologists encourage patients to seek out psychiatrists if they believe medication is likely to help a patient. Psychiatrists aren't the same as pharmacists, they are an active part of your treatment plan. I would suggest you take some time to understand the end goal of treatment and why people seek treatment. The goal is not to make patients docile.
    - chris_wot 4y ago
      There are few psychologists who deride medication just because they can’t prescribe it. In fact, it’s largely the other way around - psychiatrists look down upon psychologists and often decide their work.
      - psychphysic 4y ago
        It would depend where the participants work, but I'd love to see an attitudes survey. It's be tricky as people are unlikely to be entirely honest giving opinions on colleagues. I linked to a survey of therapists on medication and the highlights of my OP were reflected there. Some therapists do not trust medications, see them as harmful, overused or subverting therapy. But therapists are not necessarily clinical psychologists. And in the UK at least every training psychiatrists would have practiced at least two modalities of psychotherapy. That's mandated by the GMC (General medical council which regulates medical licenses). Usually one cognitive therapy and one psychodynamic therapy. I've seen research which shows that those that conduct it feel that it's beneficial and effective.

psychphysic 4y ago

A key issue is also that even within mental health services there is animosity towards psychiatry. Whatever one thinks of antidepressants or antipsychotics (maybe less mood stabilizers I think), psychologists hate them. And I think while psychiatrists see psychology as helpful for their patients, psychologists can see the use of medications as a failure. I could say more but I think I'll just leave it at that.

knaik94 4y ago
I would appreciate it if you did say more. I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that psychologists hate medicine. In most cases psychologist and psychiatrist work together to provide treatment to a patient. Why would psychologists see the use of medicine as failure?
- psychphysic 4y ago
  Here's a nice article on it [2] > In addition, the qualitative aspect of therapist views showed that, perhaps above and beyond this, therapists feel the impact of psychiatric drugs on the therapeutic relationship. While some felt that drugs could improve client engagement, there was a strong feeling that their effects (and side effects) had a negative impact on clients' ability to work therapeutically. > Having to take meds can be viewed as failure by some therapists which is not helpful to clients. (Respondent 906) One of the therapists even calls out other therapists about seeing medication and failure. Probably better to read the whole thing but boils down to psychologists don't like medications. [2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/capr.12403 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/capr.12403 ########### Forget all this gonna do a stream of consciousness as it's late here, the topic is pretty overdone and constantly attracts hate and honestly this is opening a can of worms but effectively you will see many many psychiatrists and doctors in general refer patients to psychological intervention. Psychologists recommending someone seek medications is nearly nonexistent. Why? I suspect its similar to the divide between doctors and midwives. Midwives can occasionally see caesarian sections as 'cheating' and labour a right of passage for women. Psychologists do something very similar, psychotherapy is a protracted unpleasant affair something that is worn as a badge of honour by those that undertake it. Then someone takes a pill and says well to be honest I won't bother. That irks some. But more to the point, there are also audits and overall several pushes to reduce usage of psychotropics [0]. So it can literally feel like a failure as a psychologist if one of your patients has to start taking a medication and later in the week you literally have to track that a failure. [1] is a recent interview in BPS (British psychological society) about a psychologists who started an organisation for evidence based psychiatry. CEP receive funding from Scientology. The most prominent UK psychology society promoting a piece about an cult funded body that opposes medicines. If you spend any time looking you will find psychology is rife with anti-psychiatry. This is just the article from the past few months that came to mind. [0] https://www.england.nhs.uk/learning-disabilities/improving-health/stamp/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/learning-disabilities/improving-h... [1] https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/medical-model-has-presided-over-four-decades-flat-lining-outcomes https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/medical-model-has-presid...
- throwaway0asd 4y ago
  Psychiatrists prescribe medications and psychologists perform counseling. The role of prescriptive medication is to modify behavior that either increases focus or stabilizes emotionally heterogeneous states. That medication is often issued in consultation between a psychiatrist and the treating psychologist to enhance receptivity to counseling (or other social contexts) otherwise it may interfere.
  - knaik94 4y ago
    Psychologists encourage patients to seek out psychiatrists if they believe medication is likely to help a patient. Psychiatrists aren't the same as pharmacists, they are an active part of your treatment plan. I would suggest you take some time to understand the end goal of treatment and why people seek treatment. The goal is not to make patients docile.
  - chris_wot 4y ago
    There are few psychologists who deride medication just because they can’t prescribe it. In fact, it’s largely the other way around - psychiatrists look down upon psychologists and often decide their work.
    - psychphysic 4y ago
      It would depend where the participants work, but I'd love to see an attitudes survey. It's be tricky as people are unlikely to be entirely honest giving opinions on colleagues. I linked to a survey of therapists on medication and the highlights of my OP were reflected there. Some therapists do not trust medications, see them as harmful, overused or subverting therapy. But therapists are not necessarily clinical psychologists. And in the UK at least every training psychiatrists would have practiced at least two modalities of psychotherapy. That's mandated by the GMC (General medical council which regulates medical licenses). Usually one cognitive therapy and one psychodynamic therapy. I've seen research which shows that those that conduct it feel that it's beneficial and effective.