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It's weird that we treat psychoactive drugs differently than other drugs. We don't have a fear of a diabetic becoming dependent on insulin or someone with high

It's weird that we treat psychoactive drugs differently than other drugs. We don't have a fear of a diabetic becoming dependent on insulin or someone with high blood pressure becoming addicted to beta blockers. There are side effects is a bad generalization of all drugs used to treat mental health issues. When I say I am taking beta blockers, most people comment on how I am a bit young to be taking them, but when I was prescribed benzos for the same condition, everyone decided to become my doctor and tell me what I should and shouldn't take. Endless stories about how then knew someone who got addicted to pain killers and became homeless and how they heard benzos are just as bad. I chose to switch off benzos to beta blockers. Doctors and the patient are the best judge for the benefits and risks of living with certain conditions vs being medicated for them. In most cases there aren't side effects.

anotherman554 4y ago
"It's weird that we treat psychoactive drugs differently than other drugs. We don't have a fear of a diabetic becoming dependent on insulin or someone with high blood pressure becoming addicted to beta blockers." It not that weird. The brain is the most complicated organ in the human body. Science understands how the kidneys work but largely doesn't understand how the brain works. If you think these drugs are worth trying, I think you should make the argument without these sorts of analogies. "Doctors and the patient are the best judge for the benefits and risks of living with certain conditions vs being medicated for them." Okay, but if you were to follow this advise you should scold anyone who says "People with mental health problems should take drugs..." That's for the doctor and patient to decide, right? But you only scolded the person pushing back at this statement.
- knaik94 4y ago
  I do. I equally scold anyone that says MDMA or LSD is the cure all of depression. It's not an analogy. There is no mechanical difference between someone using Amphetamines to treat their ADHD and someone using insulin to treat their diabetes. There are just as many external as internal factors that go into how someone can get diabetes and what dosage of insulin they need at a specific moment in time. Science has advanced to a point where diabetes specifically can be monitored easily by a patient. The same is true of hypertension. The difference for mental health issues is that there is no easy quantifiable way to diagnose someone. Every organ is the most complicated organ in the human body, at a certain level every organ has a mechanism science doesn't understand yet. That's not a valid argument. The same is true for pain management. And Multiple Sclerosis. I would suggest you look into the modern state of neurophysiology and neuropsychopharmacology. The "we don't understand" is not true anymore. The reality is that there are so many factors affecting a certain visible outcome that it's hard to specify a root cause. I am not a medical professional, I have only taken some 300 and 400/grad level courses in psychology.
  - ButterBiscuits 4y ago
    > The "we don't understand" is not true anymore. The reality is that there are so many factors affecting a certain visible outcome that it's hard to specify a root cause. That sounds like "we don't understand" except now we slightly better understand how little we understand. We don't even know how Tylenol works.
  - FactoryReboot 4y ago
    “Every organ is the most complicated organ”. No, that’s blatantly untrue. The liver is one of the simpler ones as it’s all single cells, and the brain is definitely the most complex. I’ve never heard anyone say they are equally complex. That doesn’t mean we understand everything about the liver, but we are hell of a lot closer than the brain.
    - knaik94 4y ago
      The liver itself might be simple but the complexity is in the enzyme pathways. The marker of "elevated liver enzymes" doesn't tell us much. Taking a step back, there is only one organ I will admit we understand better than the brain, the heart. It's the only organ where we know enough to replace it with a mechanical counterpart. We don't know enough to make it last a long time, but it's enough to prolong someone's life in a meaningful way.
  - anotherman554 4y ago
    Because the kidneys are much more simple than the brain, diabetes is diagnosed with a blood sugar test. In contrast, mental health diseases are generally diagnosed by talking to the patient, because there is little understanding of the underlying biology. "I am not a medical professional, I have only taken some 300 and 400/grad level courses in psychology." Do you believe your professors would agree that the mechanism of treating ADHD is the same as treating diabetes, or that the kidney is as complicated as the brain? "I would suggest you look into the modern state of neurophysiology and neuropsychopharmacology. The "we don't understand" is not true anymore. " Last time I "looked into it" did not result in a belief that we understand the brain. I just "looked into it" for a minute or two, and here's an interesting APA article from 2012 where a professor of brain science and Nobel prize laureate is stated to believe the field is where cardiology was 100 years ago. I recommend reading it: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/roots https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/roots I half expect you are going to tell me, with great enthusiasm, that everything important was learned over the last 10 years.
blendergeek 4y ago
That is weird. Diabetes can sometimes be treated with methods other than insulin [0]. I think that these dietary treatments are always a better option than insulin. The same way with high blood pressure. High blood pressure should always be managed by "diet and exercise" before meds are brought in. All of these drugs (diabetes drugs, high blood pressure drugs, heart medication) that are regularly being used to treat lifestyle diseases should be seen as a last resort with the main goal being to help people get to a point where they don't need them.
- ggm 4y ago
  ... until you hit 55-60 and irreversible changes to your body's hormonal system mean diet and exercise alone cannot control your hypertension, or late onset diabetes. I mean sure. Try. I had 10 years on Hypertension meds, 15 off, and I am back on despite significant weightless and increased physical activity. Idiopathic can happen.

anotherman554 4y ago

"It's weird that we treat psychoactive drugs differently than other drugs. We don't have a fear of a diabetic becoming dependent on insulin or someone with high blood pressure becoming addicted to beta blockers." It not that weird. The brain is the most complicated organ in the human body. Science understands how the kidneys work but largely doesn't understand how the brain works. If you think these drugs are worth trying, I think you should make the argument without these sorts of analogies. "Doctors and the patient are the best judge for the benefits and risks of living with certain conditions vs being medicated for them." Okay, but if you were to follow this advise you should scold anyone who says "People with mental health problems should take drugs..." That's for the doctor and patient to decide, right? But you only scolded the person pushing back at this statement.

knaik94 4y ago
I do. I equally scold anyone that says MDMA or LSD is the cure all of depression. It's not an analogy. There is no mechanical difference between someone using Amphetamines to treat their ADHD and someone using insulin to treat their diabetes. There are just as many external as internal factors that go into how someone can get diabetes and what dosage of insulin they need at a specific moment in time. Science has advanced to a point where diabetes specifically can be monitored easily by a patient. The same is true of hypertension. The difference for mental health issues is that there is no easy quantifiable way to diagnose someone. Every organ is the most complicated organ in the human body, at a certain level every organ has a mechanism science doesn't understand yet. That's not a valid argument. The same is true for pain management. And Multiple Sclerosis. I would suggest you look into the modern state of neurophysiology and neuropsychopharmacology. The "we don't understand" is not true anymore. The reality is that there are so many factors affecting a certain visible outcome that it's hard to specify a root cause. I am not a medical professional, I have only taken some 300 and 400/grad level courses in psychology.
- ButterBiscuits 4y ago
  > The "we don't understand" is not true anymore. The reality is that there are so many factors affecting a certain visible outcome that it's hard to specify a root cause. That sounds like "we don't understand" except now we slightly better understand how little we understand. We don't even know how Tylenol works.
- FactoryReboot 4y ago
  “Every organ is the most complicated organ”. No, that’s blatantly untrue. The liver is one of the simpler ones as it’s all single cells, and the brain is definitely the most complex. I’ve never heard anyone say they are equally complex. That doesn’t mean we understand everything about the liver, but we are hell of a lot closer than the brain.
  - knaik94 4y ago
    The liver itself might be simple but the complexity is in the enzyme pathways. The marker of "elevated liver enzymes" doesn't tell us much. Taking a step back, there is only one organ I will admit we understand better than the brain, the heart. It's the only organ where we know enough to replace it with a mechanical counterpart. We don't know enough to make it last a long time, but it's enough to prolong someone's life in a meaningful way.
- anotherman554 4y ago
  Because the kidneys are much more simple than the brain, diabetes is diagnosed with a blood sugar test. In contrast, mental health diseases are generally diagnosed by talking to the patient, because there is little understanding of the underlying biology. "I am not a medical professional, I have only taken some 300 and 400/grad level courses in psychology." Do you believe your professors would agree that the mechanism of treating ADHD is the same as treating diabetes, or that the kidney is as complicated as the brain? "I would suggest you look into the modern state of neurophysiology and neuropsychopharmacology. The "we don't understand" is not true anymore. " Last time I "looked into it" did not result in a belief that we understand the brain. I just "looked into it" for a minute or two, and here's an interesting APA article from 2012 where a professor of brain science and Nobel prize laureate is stated to believe the field is where cardiology was 100 years ago. I recommend reading it: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/roots https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/roots I half expect you are going to tell me, with great enthusiasm, that everything important was learned over the last 10 years.

blendergeek 4y ago

That is weird. Diabetes can sometimes be treated with methods other than insulin [0]. I think that these dietary treatments are always a better option than insulin. The same way with high blood pressure. High blood pressure should always be managed by "diet and exercise" before meds are brought in. All of these drugs (diabetes drugs, high blood pressure drugs, heart medication) that are regularly being used to treat lifestyle diseases should be seen as a last resort with the main goal being to help people get to a point where they don't need them.

ggm 4y ago
... until you hit 55-60 and irreversible changes to your body's hormonal system mean diet and exercise alone cannot control your hypertension, or late onset diabetes. I mean sure. Try. I had 10 years on Hypertension meds, 15 off, and I am back on despite significant weightless and increased physical activity. Idiopathic can happen.