4 ms·

No, it's not that simple. The snow crab fishery is pretty highly regulated and considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, other

No, it's not that simple. The snow crab fishery is pretty highly regulated and considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others). As mentioned in an another article [1] from August on the recent disappearance, there were large numbers of juveniles in 2018 and 2019. Something else is going on. Overfishing certainly may play a role, but something else is likely the primary factor. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-cr...

insane_dreamer 4y ago
> considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others) maybe they considered incorrectly, based on historical data that doesn't reflect recent conditions also possibly that regulations are being flaunted by bad actors it could seem improbable that either of those would lead to a sudden catastrophic decline, but many systems do experience a point where what had been a linear decline suddenly craters in a non-linear fashion
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  In previous collapses such organizations sounded the alarm well before. Something else is happening.
  - barkingcat 4y ago
    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-harvest-slashed-by-nearly-90-after-population-crash-in-a-warming-bering-sea/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-... The alarm has been sounding for at least a season, maybe even more.
    - llbeansandrice 4y ago
      By contrast cod that folks keep referencing collapsed 90% over _30 years_. An issue with a single season does not suggest that the regulations weren't strict enough. They now do need to become more strict as a reaction to the population but fishing is not the only pressure on a population and I find it difficult to believe that snow crab would be fished basically to extinction in < 700 days
hedgehog 4y ago
I don't know much about snow crab but Dungeness and various oysters in the Pacific Northwest US are threatened by rising ocean acidity caused by increased CO2. Warmer water is also allowing green crabs to take hold. Farther south urchins have killed off a lot of kelp forest in a way that seems not to self-correct. Easy to imagine there are similar problems all over the ocean.
- rileyphone 4y ago
  At least the urchin problem is caused, in part, by the mysterious sea star wasting disease - a disbiosis of their microbial layer that leads to rapid death. Sea stars are the natural predators of the urchins, and with their disappearance, the urchins flourish and take down the kelp.
  - steelframe 4y ago
    > Sea stars are the natural predators of the urchins, and with their disappearance, the urchins flourish and take down the kelp. No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the urchins.
- soperj 4y ago
  Sea urchins are a problem everywhere in the pacific, and that's because their main predator (sea otters) were nearly wiped out.
  - swhalen 4y ago
    I think it's just the western coast of North America that has this problem, rather than the entire Pacific. For example in New Zealand, which is in the Pacific, there were never any sea otters. Urchins, regarded locally as a delicacy, are not particularly abundant.
    - greggsy 4y ago
      Crown-of-thorns starfish, on the other hand, are a very serious problem in Australia
WalterBright 4y ago
Wildlife populations are a chaotic system, i.e. not steady state, even without any influence by humans. It's still worth investigating, however.
marcjuul 4y ago
Absolutely not an expert here and would love to be corrected but my poorly informed personal impression is that the whole idea of a sustainable amount of fishing and whether all species even have a number that is safe to harvest (especially given that no species exists in isolation), let alone what that number is, is on fairly shaky grounds scientifically. Meaning that a lot of this is guesswork based on too little information and "doing something is better than doing nothing" compromises with the fishing industry. If a species population has appeared to be stable for x number of years with y amount of fishing, does that mean that it's sustainable? Indefinitely? Given other changes in ecosystem and environment?
- colordrops 4y ago
  Thank you. The problem with a lot of the discussion around this topic is that most people are heavily biased as they derive great pleasure from consuming these animals, and so certain ideas and theories are ignored or under represented.
aaron695 4y ago
barkingcat 4y ago
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-harvest-slashed-by-nearly-90-after-population-crash-in-a-warming-bering-sea/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-... Notice that this article is from 2021 for last year's catch. "The 2021 fall harvest of Bristol Bay red king crab, another important source of revenue for that fleet, was canceled for this year because of too few females." The collapse has been happening for years. This year it's just another species. Species by species it's going to collapse. Next will be shrimp and krill. Don't be surprised when the salmon runs collapse too, because for 3 years now every single year has been a 90% decline.

insane_dreamer 4y ago

> considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others) maybe they considered incorrectly, based on historical data that doesn't reflect recent conditions also possibly that regulations are being flaunted by bad actors it could seem improbable that either of those would lead to a sudden catastrophic decline, but many systems do experience a point where what had been a linear decline suddenly craters in a non-linear fashion

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
In previous collapses such organizations sounded the alarm well before. Something else is happening.
- barkingcat 4y ago
  https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-harvest-slashed-by-nearly-90-after-population-crash-in-a-warming-bering-sea/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-... The alarm has been sounding for at least a season, maybe even more.
  - llbeansandrice 4y ago
    By contrast cod that folks keep referencing collapsed 90% over _30 years_. An issue with a single season does not suggest that the regulations weren't strict enough. They now do need to become more strict as a reaction to the population but fishing is not the only pressure on a population and I find it difficult to believe that snow crab would be fished basically to extinction in < 700 days

hedgehog 4y ago

I don't know much about snow crab but Dungeness and various oysters in the Pacific Northwest US are threatened by rising ocean acidity caused by increased CO2. Warmer water is also allowing green crabs to take hold. Farther south urchins have killed off a lot of kelp forest in a way that seems not to self-correct. Easy to imagine there are similar problems all over the ocean.

rileyphone 4y ago
At least the urchin problem is caused, in part, by the mysterious sea star wasting disease - a disbiosis of their microbial layer that leads to rapid death. Sea stars are the natural predators of the urchins, and with their disappearance, the urchins flourish and take down the kelp.
- steelframe 4y ago
  > Sea stars are the natural predators of the urchins, and with their disappearance, the urchins flourish and take down the kelp. No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the urchins.
soperj 4y ago
Sea urchins are a problem everywhere in the pacific, and that's because their main predator (sea otters) were nearly wiped out.
- swhalen 4y ago
  I think it's just the western coast of North America that has this problem, rather than the entire Pacific. For example in New Zealand, which is in the Pacific, there were never any sea otters. Urchins, regarded locally as a delicacy, are not particularly abundant.
  - greggsy 4y ago
    Crown-of-thorns starfish, on the other hand, are a very serious problem in Australia

WalterBright 4y ago

Wildlife populations are a chaotic system, i.e. not steady state, even without any influence by humans. It's still worth investigating, however.

marcjuul 4y ago

Absolutely not an expert here and would love to be corrected but my poorly informed personal impression is that the whole idea of a sustainable amount of fishing and whether all species even have a number that is safe to harvest (especially given that no species exists in isolation), let alone what that number is, is on fairly shaky grounds scientifically. Meaning that a lot of this is guesswork based on too little information and "doing something is better than doing nothing" compromises with the fishing industry. If a species population has appeared to be stable for x number of years with y amount of fishing, does that mean that it's sustainable? Indefinitely? Given other changes in ecosystem and environment?

colordrops 4y ago
Thank you. The problem with a lot of the discussion around this topic is that most people are heavily biased as they derive great pleasure from consuming these animals, and so certain ideas and theories are ignored or under represented.

aaron695 4y ago

barkingcat 4y ago

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-harvest-slashed-by-nearly-90-after-population-crash-in-a-warming-bering-sea/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-... Notice that this article is from 2021 for last year's catch. "The 2021 fall harvest of Bristol Bay red king crab, another important source of revenue for that fleet, was canceled for this year because of too few females." The collapse has been happening for years. This year it's just another species. Species by species it's going to collapse. Next will be shrimp and krill. Don't be surprised when the salmon runs collapse too, because for 3 years now every single year has been a 90% decline.