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People understandably don't want to accept that Russia, China and India have gone all in with each other, because of the future ramifications, but it is what it

People understandably don't want to accept that Russia, China and India have gone all in with each other, because of the future ramifications, but it is what it is, and we're much better off if we start figuring out how we can get along in that sort of world.

nine_zeros 4y ago
I don't understand why people think Russia, China and India are united. They aren't. China and India are rivals and have skirmishes on their borders. China doesn't want to trade only with Russia at the expense of the rest of the world. The only thing that can make that alignment happen is a common enemy. And only Russia views America as a true enemy. It's not as simple as the media makes it out. Another way to think about this, if a WW3 breaks out, its not clear that China will defend Russia. And India and China certainly won't defend each other.
- testrun 4y ago
  China certainly sees the USA as an enemy. You just need to follow the Chinese sponsored media (Global Times etc) to see it.
- testrun 4y ago
  India and China are members of the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) as well as India participated in the Russian led Vostok military drills (China also participated). The relationship between China and India is complicated.
  - nine_zeros 4y ago
    India also joins military drills with US, Japan and Australia. India sells weapons to nations threatened by China. They are truly third world. From the lens of their media, an alliance with China would appear absurd.
Scarblac 4y ago
They haven't. For instance, China hasn't even recognized Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea.
bergenty 4y ago
China and India are not on the same team. India seems neutral on Russia and is pretty much par for the course for a country that explicitly formed the Non Aligned Movement to stay out of the Cold War.
srvmshr 4y ago
The politics of diplomacy is never all black or white. India buys oil from Russia because of discount rate, but has also pivoted away from using hi-tech Russian weaponry in favor of US & Israeli arms. Until 2 decades ago, India's defense & industrial backbone was Soviet. Currently, its mostly American/Allied western sourced. US-India have a much higher dollar value of defense & bilateral trade than India-Russia traditionally had in the past. Also they both are members of Quad alliance with Japan & Australia against China. The world is becoming slowly multipolar. There are no two sides anymore. There is US-Russia, Sino-Russia, Indo-Chinese, Sino-American conflicts of interests. In addition to US, India & China have considerable impact on geopolitics - both economic & military. India has been acknowledging Russian misadventures as dangerous, with Modi giving a clear rebuke recently. However, I think the polity is cautious going too far in chorus. Relationships are built over decades & fickleness of US political theater doesn't really help making such costly international decisions. Let's assume US decides to screw over India with sanctions over Kashmir. Would they like to come to grinding halt because a sitting US president thought it was a great idea? Because that's what happened in Pakistan slowly after 9/11. They were military ally with US, but publicly shunned in following years because Pakistan was not clearing the bars set by Bush & Obama administration, despite a lot of sincere effort from the government machinery. No one wants the same fate as Pakistan. Think of India as another Saudi Arabia. They are thick buddies with US on many matters, but India wouldn't necessarily toe the line, just like S Arabia won't pump more oil to keep American gas prices stable. What they do is their business
- missedthecue 4y ago
  What weapons systems does India import from the US? I cannot think of any off-hand. But I do know India just bought the S-400 system from Russia, they developed the BrahMos in close coordination with the Russians, the bought naval fighter aircraft from Russia for their aircraft carrier in 2017, they also bought attack helicopters from Russia the same year. They are leasing a nuclear submarine since 2017 from Russia, and as recently as 2011 they were buying tanks from Russia. I think the general decline in Indian arms imports from Russia since in the 1980s has nothing to do with the US and more to do with India building their own equipment domestically, such as their new rifles, new main battle tanks, naval ships, artillery systems, and even now their own helicopters.
seydor 4y ago
they are big countries, they don't need to go all in
StanislavPetrov 4y ago
It isn't that Russia, China and India have gone in with each other so much as they have all rejected the unipolar world run by the United States. It is much more within the national interest of China and India to maintain (and expand) their economic relations with resource-rich Russia than it is to punish their own economies at the behest of the United States. Many people, for better or worse, are convinced that continued US global hegemony is not only desirable, but absolutely essential. These are the people who talk solemnly about the importance of the "rules-based, liberal international order". What they mean by that is the ability of the United States to make the rules by which other countries must abide, but which we are exempt. The reality is that the multi-polar world has already arrived. You're absolutely right that we'd be better off figuring out how to best survive (and thrive) in that world instead of flailing around in a desperate, futile attempt to maintain control.

nine_zeros 4y ago

I don't understand why people think Russia, China and India are united. They aren't. China and India are rivals and have skirmishes on their borders. China doesn't want to trade only with Russia at the expense of the rest of the world. The only thing that can make that alignment happen is a common enemy. And only Russia views America as a true enemy. It's not as simple as the media makes it out. Another way to think about this, if a WW3 breaks out, its not clear that China will defend Russia. And India and China certainly won't defend each other.

testrun 4y ago
China certainly sees the USA as an enemy. You just need to follow the Chinese sponsored media (Global Times etc) to see it.
testrun 4y ago
India and China are members of the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) as well as India participated in the Russian led Vostok military drills (China also participated). The relationship between China and India is complicated.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  India also joins military drills with US, Japan and Australia. India sells weapons to nations threatened by China. They are truly third world. From the lens of their media, an alliance with China would appear absurd.

Scarblac 4y ago

They haven't. For instance, China hasn't even recognized Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea.

bergenty 4y ago

China and India are not on the same team. India seems neutral on Russia and is pretty much par for the course for a country that explicitly formed the Non Aligned Movement to stay out of the Cold War.

srvmshr 4y ago

The politics of diplomacy is never all black or white. India buys oil from Russia because of discount rate, but has also pivoted away from using hi-tech Russian weaponry in favor of US & Israeli arms. Until 2 decades ago, India's defense & industrial backbone was Soviet. Currently, its mostly American/Allied western sourced. US-India have a much higher dollar value of defense & bilateral trade than India-Russia traditionally had in the past. Also they both are members of Quad alliance with Japan & Australia against China. The world is becoming slowly multipolar. There are no two sides anymore. There is US-Russia, Sino-Russia, Indo-Chinese, Sino-American conflicts of interests. In addition to US, India & China have considerable impact on geopolitics - both economic & military. India has been acknowledging Russian misadventures as dangerous, with Modi giving a clear rebuke recently. However, I think the polity is cautious going too far in chorus. Relationships are built over decades & fickleness of US political theater doesn't really help making such costly international decisions. Let's assume US decides to screw over India with sanctions over Kashmir. Would they like to come to grinding halt because a sitting US president thought it was a great idea? Because that's what happened in Pakistan slowly after 9/11. They were military ally with US, but publicly shunned in following years because Pakistan was not clearing the bars set by Bush & Obama administration, despite a lot of sincere effort from the government machinery. No one wants the same fate as Pakistan. Think of India as another Saudi Arabia. They are thick buddies with US on many matters, but India wouldn't necessarily toe the line, just like S Arabia won't pump more oil to keep American gas prices stable. What they do is their business

missedthecue 4y ago
What weapons systems does India import from the US? I cannot think of any off-hand. But I do know India just bought the S-400 system from Russia, they developed the BrahMos in close coordination with the Russians, the bought naval fighter aircraft from Russia for their aircraft carrier in 2017, they also bought attack helicopters from Russia the same year. They are leasing a nuclear submarine since 2017 from Russia, and as recently as 2011 they were buying tanks from Russia. I think the general decline in Indian arms imports from Russia since in the 1980s has nothing to do with the US and more to do with India building their own equipment domestically, such as their new rifles, new main battle tanks, naval ships, artillery systems, and even now their own helicopters.

seydor 4y ago

they are big countries, they don't need to go all in

StanislavPetrov 4y ago

It isn't that Russia, China and India have gone in with each other so much as they have all rejected the unipolar world run by the United States. It is much more within the national interest of China and India to maintain (and expand) their economic relations with resource-rich Russia than it is to punish their own economies at the behest of the United States. Many people, for better or worse, are convinced that continued US global hegemony is not only desirable, but absolutely essential. These are the people who talk solemnly about the importance of the "rules-based, liberal international order". What they mean by that is the ability of the United States to make the rules by which other countries must abide, but which we are exempt. The reality is that the multi-polar world has already arrived. You're absolutely right that we'd be better off figuring out how to best survive (and thrive) in that world instead of flailing around in a desperate, futile attempt to maintain control.