4 ms·

Our taxes fund them, so in a sense, yes. We could fund civilian organizations to perform many of the functions of police, and do so without weapons and oppress

Our taxes fund them, so in a sense, yes. We could fund civilian organizations to perform many of the functions of police, and do so without weapons and oppressive technology. Then reduce our police forces.

wlesieutre 4y ago
For the record, the police are a civilian organization, the fact that they like to gear up in military equipment and pretend they're in a war is part of the problem
- socialismisok 4y ago
  Of course. But it's common enough lingo to use phrases like "civilian oversight" to refer to non police community members. The intent is to suggest unarmed, non law enforcement organizations.
NegativeLatency 4y ago
Portland actually has such an organization: https://www.portland.gov/streetresponse https://www.portland.gov/streetresponse
- wlesieutre 4y ago
  Denver also https://kdvr.com/news/local/study-denvers-star-program-reduced-crime-costs/ https://kdvr.com/news/local/study-denvers-star-program-reduc...
- joemazerino 4y ago
  Ah yes Portland. The bastion of civil protection and order. https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2022/10/82-of-portland-area-voters-want-more-police-oregonianoregonlive-poll-finds.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2022/10/82-of-portland-area...
  - NegativeLatency 4y ago
    Im going to guess we disagree about the state of policing, a couple of things you should consider though: The Oregonian has a pretty obvious slant and bias in related reporting. Another thing worth considering is “who’s benefiting” from all the reporting about “dirty” “homeless filled” “unsafe” Portland, as generally it’s conservative and pro police organizations that pull it out as a scare tactic to all the people in the suburbs or even more rural areas of the state.
muaytimbo 4y ago
Reduce or eliminate entirely? I'd advocate for the latter.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  I would too, but I'd consider the former a win to a lesser degree.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  The capital class will never allow for the elimination of police. If they do, the result will be worse, because it will have been because they realized they could hire private security for cheaper than funding public protection. If you don't like the unaccountability of cops, look forward to the accountability of Pinkerton private investigators.
  - muaytimbo 4y ago
    eh, at least with Pinkerton PIs they are not literally on the same payroll as prosecutors and judges. There can be a little daylight between them. Maybe I'm part of that "capital class", I'm not sure what that means exactly but I know I'd much rather look after my own affairs.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      The capital class are the folks who will be able to hire bodyguards or pay subscriptions to private police forces if we do away with public police. Because the alternative to public policing isn't no police; it's rich folk paying the interior-territorial arm of PMCs to march around their property with body armor and high-powered rifles, while the rest of the populace sorts things out themselves. We didn't always have public policing, and one can look at history to see what the prior alternatives were.
      - muaytimbo 4y ago
        That's an assumption. I have my concealed carry card. I can/ do/ and would continue protect myself. Other people can do the same without resorting to hiring. There's also a long history of self protection without the use of hired goons.

wlesieutre 4y ago

For the record, the police are a civilian organization, the fact that they like to gear up in military equipment and pretend they're in a war is part of the problem

socialismisok 4y ago
Of course. But it's common enough lingo to use phrases like "civilian oversight" to refer to non police community members. The intent is to suggest unarmed, non law enforcement organizations.

NegativeLatency 4y ago

Portland actually has such an organization: https://www.portland.gov/streetresponse https://www.portland.gov/streetresponse

wlesieutre 4y ago
Denver also https://kdvr.com/news/local/study-denvers-star-program-reduced-crime-costs/ https://kdvr.com/news/local/study-denvers-star-program-reduc...
joemazerino 4y ago
Ah yes Portland. The bastion of civil protection and order. https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2022/10/82-of-portland-area-voters-want-more-police-oregonianoregonlive-poll-finds.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2022/10/82-of-portland-area...
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  Im going to guess we disagree about the state of policing, a couple of things you should consider though: The Oregonian has a pretty obvious slant and bias in related reporting. Another thing worth considering is “who’s benefiting” from all the reporting about “dirty” “homeless filled” “unsafe” Portland, as generally it’s conservative and pro police organizations that pull it out as a scare tactic to all the people in the suburbs or even more rural areas of the state.

muaytimbo 4y ago

Reduce or eliminate entirely? I'd advocate for the latter.

socialismisok 4y ago
I would too, but I'd consider the former a win to a lesser degree.
shadowgovt 4y ago
The capital class will never allow for the elimination of police. If they do, the result will be worse, because it will have been because they realized they could hire private security for cheaper than funding public protection. If you don't like the unaccountability of cops, look forward to the accountability of Pinkerton private investigators.
- muaytimbo 4y ago
  eh, at least with Pinkerton PIs they are not literally on the same payroll as prosecutors and judges. There can be a little daylight between them. Maybe I'm part of that "capital class", I'm not sure what that means exactly but I know I'd much rather look after my own affairs.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    The capital class are the folks who will be able to hire bodyguards or pay subscriptions to private police forces if we do away with public police. Because the alternative to public policing isn't no police; it's rich folk paying the interior-territorial arm of PMCs to march around their property with body armor and high-powered rifles, while the rest of the populace sorts things out themselves. We didn't always have public policing, and one can look at history to see what the prior alternatives were.
    - muaytimbo 4y ago
      That's an assumption. I have my concealed carry card. I can/ do/ and would continue protect myself. Other people can do the same without resorting to hiring. There's also a long history of self protection without the use of hired goons.