6 ms·

> "You can almost always change cash with no commission and at a better exchange rate than credit cards charge" Can you? This doesn't seem to be the case excep

by pxx 4y ago

> "You can almost always change cash with no commission and at a better exchange rate than credit cards charge" Can you? This doesn't seem to be the case except in countries where the real exchange rate has drifted from a government-imposed one. The spread on my credit card and ATM card are low enough (very negative, in fact, on the credit card when we consider cashback) where if this were the case I would be able to arbitrage against said jewelry stores.

Mikeb85 4y ago
Definitely not lol. Cash changing places are always colossal rip-offs that give you an exchange rate that's off by like 30%...
- presentation 4y ago
  Yeah I’ve checked my credit card and ATM transactions against google’s exchange rates and they almost always are extremely close matches. Local banks seem to basically just provide the same rates with the extra annoyance that you have to carry around a ton of cash.
- Chris_arnade 4y ago
  No! Some are indeed. Especially in Airport. But almost every country has, if you look for them, places with zero commission. Also, a lot of places around the world (where I go, especially street food type places) don't accept cards. Taking local money out of bank machines is a huge rip off. Huge fees and bad exchange rates
  - pxx 4y ago
    But that's literally not the case. There are ATM cards that reimburse you for fees and also give you great exchange rates. Again, this is assuming that there isn't some sort of black market for exchange that's causing published rates to diverge from real rates, but that's only the case in relatively few countries.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - iLoveOncall 4y ago
    Yeah so zero commission doesn't mean that the exchange rate is the real one.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Zero commission is laughable because they give you a shit exchange rate. That's literally the scam.
  - Kranar 4y ago
    >But almost every country has, if you look for them, places with zero commission. Oh man this is hilarious. Places with zero commission end up charging the absolute worst exchange rates. You're better off paying a small commission/fee and getting a good exchange rate instead of those zero commission places that don't charge a fee and fleece you with a crappy exchange rate.
    - blacklion 4y ago
      Did you been in Myanmar or Laos, for example? Did you exchange money in Cambodia? Rural Vietnam? Armenia or Georgia, maybe? Serbia or BiH? I've been in all these countries (many times in some of them) and always, always exchange of cash was much better than exchange rate and ATM commissions for any bank of my native country. Maybe, USA banks are better, but not everybody live in USA and has USA credit card.
      - Kranar 4y ago
        The best option for me as a Canadian who has travelled to some (not all) of the places you listed, is to do the exchange in your home country and bring plenty of cash with you. If you're going to Vietnam, you bring VND with you that you acquired from your home bank. Going to Morocco, bring MAD with you.
        blacklion 4y ago
        Good to be Canadian, I suppose. Never see any such currencies in my local exchanges. Maybe, there are some banks where you could ORDER such currency as VND or MMK, but I'm afraid, rate will be disastrous as it will be very special order.
      - seattle_spring 4y ago
        I’m honestly confused. The ATM doesn’t choose the exchange rate, your bank does. I use my own bank’s ATM card to pull out cash in foreign countries and it’s always the correct exchange rate, and always the same as using a credit card (which OP says is a good rate?).
blacklion 4y ago
Yes, you can. I've been in Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar (not to mention Thailand) and I always has much better exchange rate for USD cash, than my credit and/or debit card. Yes, I'm not from USA, and we don't have any cards with real cash-back. Typically exchange rate for all banks in my country is like xe.com + 3-5%. It is terrible. Only one time I seen really monstrous exchange rate for cash: in Istanbul airport. It was complete rip-off. Exchange booths in Istnabul itself were better than my bank exchange rate. And typical spread in exchange booth in Myanmar is 0.1%. Yes, 0.1%. Like, 1000/1001 per dollar if you have $100 bills (worse for $50 and lower).
- oasisbob 4y ago
  > Yes, I'm not from USA, and we don't have any cards with real cash-back. Typically exchange rate for all banks in my country is like xe.com + 3-5%. It is terrible. Ahh, now I understand where the disagreement is coming from. For US cards, it's not cash-back rewards which make them a good value for foreign exchange. It's that the networks (eg, VISA, or Mastercard) offer currency conversion rates which are much closer to par than local retail services. (or, your bank, apparently.) This article has a few good example charts for the networks: https://www.thinmargin.com/blogs/visa-vs-mastercard-who-gives-better-exchange-rates https://www.thinmargin.com/blogs/visa-vs-mastercard-who-give... Typically there is a 1% fee for the service. However, many premium cards will waive this fee as a privilege. If you have access to a card like this, it's a no-brainer.
  - blacklion 4y ago
    Our banks adds their commission over Visa/MC one. Always. And additional commission for "foreign" ATM, typical. Even if your Visa is in USD / MC is in Euro and not native currency. I don't know how is it work, but I see such transactions in bank's online service as "Transaction Amount: xxx.yy AMD, In account currency: zzz.qq USD" and when you divide one by the other you get something like 5-7% difference with FOREX exchange rate (of course, not to you side!). If your card is in native currency, it is even worse, as there is double-conversion via system currency (USD in case of Visa, EUR in case of MC). I don't know, why our banks have their own exchange rates and not Visa/MC rates and how Visa/MC allows this.
rockinghigh 4y ago
You're right. In order, the cheapest options are: 1) an account in the local currency with a debit card; 2) credit cards without foreign transaction fees and cash- back 3) ATM withdrawal with a no-fee debit card Changing USD in cash to get local currency is almost always the worst option. They charge 5%-10% on the exchange rate plus whatever fees.

by pxx 4y ago

Mikeb85 4y ago

Definitely not lol. Cash changing places are always colossal rip-offs that give you an exchange rate that's off by like 30%...

presentation 4y ago
Yeah I’ve checked my credit card and ATM transactions against google’s exchange rates and they almost always are extremely close matches. Local banks seem to basically just provide the same rates with the extra annoyance that you have to carry around a ton of cash.
Chris_arnade 4y ago
No! Some are indeed. Especially in Airport. But almost every country has, if you look for them, places with zero commission. Also, a lot of places around the world (where I go, especially street food type places) don't accept cards. Taking local money out of bank machines is a huge rip off. Huge fees and bad exchange rates
- pxx 4y ago
  But that's literally not the case. There are ATM cards that reimburse you for fees and also give you great exchange rates. Again, this is assuming that there isn't some sort of black market for exchange that's causing published rates to diverge from real rates, but that's only the case in relatively few countries.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  Yeah so zero commission doesn't mean that the exchange rate is the real one.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Zero commission is laughable because they give you a shit exchange rate. That's literally the scam.
- Kranar 4y ago
  >But almost every country has, if you look for them, places with zero commission. Oh man this is hilarious. Places with zero commission end up charging the absolute worst exchange rates. You're better off paying a small commission/fee and getting a good exchange rate instead of those zero commission places that don't charge a fee and fleece you with a crappy exchange rate.
  - blacklion 4y ago
    Did you been in Myanmar or Laos, for example? Did you exchange money in Cambodia? Rural Vietnam? Armenia or Georgia, maybe? Serbia or BiH? I've been in all these countries (many times in some of them) and always, always exchange of cash was much better than exchange rate and ATM commissions for any bank of my native country. Maybe, USA banks are better, but not everybody live in USA and has USA credit card.
    - Kranar 4y ago
      The best option for me as a Canadian who has travelled to some (not all) of the places you listed, is to do the exchange in your home country and bring plenty of cash with you. If you're going to Vietnam, you bring VND with you that you acquired from your home bank. Going to Morocco, bring MAD with you.
      - blacklion 4y ago
        Good to be Canadian, I suppose. Never see any such currencies in my local exchanges. Maybe, there are some banks where you could ORDER such currency as VND or MMK, but I'm afraid, rate will be disastrous as it will be very special order.
    - seattle_spring 4y ago
      I’m honestly confused. The ATM doesn’t choose the exchange rate, your bank does. I use my own bank’s ATM card to pull out cash in foreign countries and it’s always the correct exchange rate, and always the same as using a credit card (which OP says is a good rate?).

blacklion 4y ago

Yes, you can. I've been in Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar (not to mention Thailand) and I always has much better exchange rate for USD cash, than my credit and/or debit card. Yes, I'm not from USA, and we don't have any cards with real cash-back. Typically exchange rate for all banks in my country is like xe.com + 3-5%. It is terrible. Only one time I seen really monstrous exchange rate for cash: in Istanbul airport. It was complete rip-off. Exchange booths in Istnabul itself were better than my bank exchange rate. And typical spread in exchange booth in Myanmar is 0.1%. Yes, 0.1%. Like, 1000/1001 per dollar if you have $100 bills (worse for $50 and lower).

oasisbob 4y ago
> Yes, I'm not from USA, and we don't have any cards with real cash-back. Typically exchange rate for all banks in my country is like xe.com + 3-5%. It is terrible. Ahh, now I understand where the disagreement is coming from. For US cards, it's not cash-back rewards which make them a good value for foreign exchange. It's that the networks (eg, VISA, or Mastercard) offer currency conversion rates which are much closer to par than local retail services. (or, your bank, apparently.) This article has a few good example charts for the networks: https://www.thinmargin.com/blogs/visa-vs-mastercard-who-gives-better-exchange-rates https://www.thinmargin.com/blogs/visa-vs-mastercard-who-give... Typically there is a 1% fee for the service. However, many premium cards will waive this fee as a privilege. If you have access to a card like this, it's a no-brainer.
- blacklion 4y ago
  Our banks adds their commission over Visa/MC one. Always. And additional commission for "foreign" ATM, typical. Even if your Visa is in USD / MC is in Euro and not native currency. I don't know how is it work, but I see such transactions in bank's online service as "Transaction Amount: xxx.yy AMD, In account currency: zzz.qq USD" and when you divide one by the other you get something like 5-7% difference with FOREX exchange rate (of course, not to you side!). If your card is in native currency, it is even worse, as there is double-conversion via system currency (USD in case of Visa, EUR in case of MC). I don't know, why our banks have their own exchange rates and not Visa/MC rates and how Visa/MC allows this.

rockinghigh 4y ago

You're right. In order, the cheapest options are: 1) an account in the local currency with a debit card; 2) credit cards without foreign transaction fees and cash- back 3) ATM withdrawal with a no-fee debit card Changing USD in cash to get local currency is almost always the worst option. They charge 5%-10% on the exchange rate plus whatever fees.