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I'm in the market for a laptop with ECC memory that runs linux well. I haven't found any good options. Despite AMD not following Intel's insane ECC product segm

I'm in the market for a laptop with ECC memory that runs linux well. I haven't found any good options. Despite AMD not following Intel's insane ECC product segmentation, there are no AMD laptops that support ECC. On the Intel side, there are maybe 3 laptops that support ECC memory: Dell Precision 7670, HP zbook fury g9, Thinkpad P16. They are all quite similar with the major downside that the iGPU is shit for all the Intel CPUs that support ECC. Intel sells only high core count variants (HX) with ECC, which means less silicon for the iGPU. They expect "workstation" users to use a discrete GPU, which is so silly. I have no use for a discrete GPU in a laptop, especially an NVIDIA one. If any of the newer laptop companies (framework, starlabs, etc.) see this, please make a reasonable laptop with ECC memory.

adrian_b 4y ago
There are many Dell Precision models with ECC memory that work very well under Linux, but as you have said, all of them use desktop Intel CPUs packaged in laptop BGAs (which are branded as the HX series since Alder Lake), so they are meant to be used only with a discrete GPU (at Dell the cheapest option is an NVIDIA RTX A1000 at $200). The H, P and U series of Intel CPUs do not support ECC, so there is no chance of laptops using them with ECC. As a notable change from the earlier mobile Ryzen CPUs, the Ryzen 6000 series, a.k.a. Rembrandt, support ECC memory (with DDR5 SODIMM; I mean real ECC, not the internal ECC of DDR5). Unfortunately, I am not aware of any laptop with Ryzen 6000 that takes advantage of this specification change and offers ECC. I doubt that any such laptop will be introduced. Maybe in 2023, with the next generation of mobile CPUs we might finally see some competition for Intel in the mobile workstation market segment. I am currently using under Linux a rather old Dell Precision with ECC memory (and with an NVIDIA GPU). I would also like an upgrade for it and the current integrated GPUs with 768 FMA units from Intel Alder Lake H or AMD Rembrandt would be good enough to avoid the high power consumption and cost of a discrete GPU, but no such luck yet.
- bubblethink 4y ago
  The hp zbook has an AMD discrete GPU option, and the thinkpad P16 has an Intel ARC discrete GPU option. These will likely be better for linux than nvidia, but it's still not ideal. Dell also let you configure 7670 without a discrete GPU. This may also be OK for basic stuff, but it's hard to justify the price premium with such a mediocre GPU over a regular laptop.
deleted 4y ago
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acomjean 4y ago
Doesn't DDR5 have some ECC built in by default? I don't think its a good as memory with ECC, but its something. edit (looking up question...)according to wikipedia, it has some ECC, but I'm failing to see the difference between the explicitly ECC and the regular memory: "Unlike DDR4, all DDR5 chips have on-die ECC, where errors are detected and corrected before sending data to the CPU. This, however, is not the same as true ECC memory with an extra data correction chip on the memory module. DDR5's on-die error correction is to improve reliability and to allow denser RAM chips which lowers the per-chip defect rate. There still exist non-ECC and ECC DDR5 DIMM variants; the ECC variants have extra data lines to the CPU to send error-detection data, letting the CPU detect and correct errors that occurred in transit." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR5_SDRAM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR5_SDRAM
- adrian_b 4y ago
  The on-die ECC serves only to make DDR5 as reliable as DDR4, despite the smaller cells and higher speeds. Real ECC must be end-to-end, from the memory controller inside the CPU to the memory chips and back to the memory controller. This allows the CPU to be aware of any errors, which is essential e.g. for detecting the memory modules that will soon fail, so they must be replaced, like in this story, and like it also happened in my computers. Moreover, not only the errors that happen in the memory cells are detected, but also the errors caused by electrical noise on the PCB traces or those caused by poor contacts in the DIMM sockets.
  - joshspankit 4y ago
    And corrects errors from cosmic rays!

adrian_b 4y ago

There are many Dell Precision models with ECC memory that work very well under Linux, but as you have said, all of them use desktop Intel CPUs packaged in laptop BGAs (which are branded as the HX series since Alder Lake), so they are meant to be used only with a discrete GPU (at Dell the cheapest option is an NVIDIA RTX A1000 at $200). The H, P and U series of Intel CPUs do not support ECC, so there is no chance of laptops using them with ECC. As a notable change from the earlier mobile Ryzen CPUs, the Ryzen 6000 series, a.k.a. Rembrandt, support ECC memory (with DDR5 SODIMM; I mean real ECC, not the internal ECC of DDR5). Unfortunately, I am not aware of any laptop with Ryzen 6000 that takes advantage of this specification change and offers ECC. I doubt that any such laptop will be introduced. Maybe in 2023, with the next generation of mobile CPUs we might finally see some competition for Intel in the mobile workstation market segment. I am currently using under Linux a rather old Dell Precision with ECC memory (and with an NVIDIA GPU). I would also like an upgrade for it and the current integrated GPUs with 768 FMA units from Intel Alder Lake H or AMD Rembrandt would be good enough to avoid the high power consumption and cost of a discrete GPU, but no such luck yet.

bubblethink 4y ago
The hp zbook has an AMD discrete GPU option, and the thinkpad P16 has an Intel ARC discrete GPU option. These will likely be better for linux than nvidia, but it's still not ideal. Dell also let you configure 7670 without a discrete GPU. This may also be OK for basic stuff, but it's hard to justify the price premium with such a mediocre GPU over a regular laptop.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

acomjean 4y ago

Doesn't DDR5 have some ECC built in by default? I don't think its a good as memory with ECC, but its something. edit (looking up question...)according to wikipedia, it has some ECC, but I'm failing to see the difference between the explicitly ECC and the regular memory: "Unlike DDR4, all DDR5 chips have on-die ECC, where errors are detected and corrected before sending data to the CPU. This, however, is not the same as true ECC memory with an extra data correction chip on the memory module. DDR5's on-die error correction is to improve reliability and to allow denser RAM chips which lowers the per-chip defect rate. There still exist non-ECC and ECC DDR5 DIMM variants; the ECC variants have extra data lines to the CPU to send error-detection data, letting the CPU detect and correct errors that occurred in transit." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR5_SDRAM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR5_SDRAM

adrian_b 4y ago
The on-die ECC serves only to make DDR5 as reliable as DDR4, despite the smaller cells and higher speeds. Real ECC must be end-to-end, from the memory controller inside the CPU to the memory chips and back to the memory controller. This allows the CPU to be aware of any errors, which is essential e.g. for detecting the memory modules that will soon fail, so they must be replaced, like in this story, and like it also happened in my computers. Moreover, not only the errors that happen in the memory cells are detected, but also the errors caused by electrical noise on the PCB traces or those caused by poor contacts in the DIMM sockets.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  And corrects errors from cosmic rays!