4 ms·

It's so easy to call this society "shitty" and "sick". It's much harder to articulate what it should be - and how it should be. Oh I know you can give a wishli

It's so easy to call this society "shitty" and "sick". It's much harder to articulate what it should be - and how it should be. Oh I know you can give a wishlist of things you want society to be; I bet you can't even begin to describe how you achieve it. No one ever does. The only method ever given is "revolution and then New Soviet Man". Every method is a restatement of those six words in longer format.

nyanpasu64 4y ago
Ted Kaczynski had an infamous description of his ideal society, and from a quick glance (I didn't fully read) he seems much more of a primitivist than a socialist.
dunnodidntneed 4y ago
TO pick only: 'Form on the Day', well doesn't that sound real, realy Mood-controlled ? So IF there are 'high-ends' in 'mood' THAN picking up a receptor-blocker to diddn't let those ('overwhelming' neuro-transmitter) be a part of the unwanted chemistry docking, cos ... hu you know... 'it may be NOT favorable FOR others' -so what's the thing ? That modern psychiatry went from behavior-analysis of criminals, scum and murder to a broader market of salesman... um that maybe is more in touch with the main story behind psychiatrists and 'illness-management'... ? Sry, non native english speaker... but a broader view... ^^
narrator 4y ago
Yeah, it seems like everything these days is about figuring out how to get everyone motivated to have a revolution. We probably already hit peak civilization at some point over the last 20 years and this revolution stuff is just speeding up the downslope off of that.
- feet 4y ago
  To leave a local maximum and find the global maximum, you must traverse the graph downward
  - creata 4y ago
    (The singular is "maximum", the plural is "maxima".)
    - feet 4y ago
      Thank you for the correction, fixed :)
throwaway743 4y ago
Universal healthcare and higher education doesn't seem all that much to ask for (US). Offering those seems like a solid start for improving society without unwanted, heavy handed direct action/totalitarianism.
- automatic6131 4y ago
  A cause worthwhile advocating for, but do you think you'll get people to stop saying that society is "sick" if you get it? Hint; Scotland has both universal healthcare and free higher education and also the highest drug deaths per person in Europe - or close to the highest.
  - throwaway743 4y ago
    Are drugs decriminalized there? What's their policy regarding policing and public health as they relate to drug users? Just because universal healthcare and higher education are offered does not mean they equate to drug deaths. That's a bullshit conclusion to draw and likely is a result of many other policy/societal factors. And absolutely they will say society is sick, but wtf does that have to do with offering universal healthcare and higher education? Of course society will always be fucked in one way or another, but measures should be taken to improve quality of life for all in an attempt to make it more bearable and hopefully would contribute to finding solutions to the issues society faces
Der_Einzige 4y ago
Read Max Stirner if you want a unique take on how to fix things without resorting to revolutions or to rewiring humans.
- lioeters 4y ago
  > Max Stirner, was a German post-Hegelian philosopher, dealing mainly with the Hegelian notion of social alienation and self-consciousness. Stirner is often seen as one of the forerunners of nihilism, existentialism, psychoanalytic theory, postmodernism and individualist anarchism. > Stirner's egoism argues that individuals are impossible to fully comprehend, as no understanding of the self can adequately describe the fullness of experience. > He believed that everyone was propelled by their own egoism and desires and that those who accepted this — as willing egoists — could freely live their individual desires, while those who did not — as unwilling egoists — will falsely believe they are fulfilling another cause while they are secretly fulfilling their own desires for happiness and security. The willing egoist would see that they could act freely, unbound from obedience to sacred but artificial truths like law, rights, morality, and religion. > Stirner proposes that most commonly accepted social institutions — including the notion of state, property as a right, natural rights in general and the very notion of society — were mere illusions. > He advocated egoism and a form of amoralism in which individuals would unite in Unions of egoists only when it was in their self-interest to do so. For him, property simply comes about through might, saying: "Whoever knows how to take and to defend the thing, to him belongs [property]." > Stirner considers the world and everything in it, including other persons, available to one's taking or use without moral constraint and that rights do not exist in regard to objects and people at all. He sees no rationality in taking the interests of others into account unless doing so furthers one's self-interest, which he believes is the only legitimate reason for acting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Stirner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Stirner --- Isn't that what we already have, a profoundly selfish society? I don't see myself in his system - I'm neither a willing nor unwilling egoist. I consider my self-interest to be part of a larger "collective self-interest" of humanity and the ecology of life. But perhaps that's my false belief and I'm only "secretly fulfilling [my] desires for happiness and security". It could be, since the happiness of the collective supports and contributes to my personal happiness.
Bakary 4y ago
Most of the dystopian decrease we've had has come in the form of added economic surplus. We won't have a revolution and a new man, just a gradual increase in energy production until cruelty and competition is no longer the default state. Or alternatively we'll all choke on our own inventions and shortcomings.

nyanpasu64 4y ago

Ted Kaczynski had an infamous description of his ideal society, and from a quick glance (I didn't fully read) he seems much more of a primitivist than a socialist.

dunnodidntneed 4y ago

TO pick only: 'Form on the Day', well doesn't that sound real, realy Mood-controlled ? So IF there are 'high-ends' in 'mood' THAN picking up a receptor-blocker to diddn't let those ('overwhelming' neuro-transmitter) be a part of the unwanted chemistry docking, cos ... hu you know... 'it may be NOT favorable FOR others' -so what's the thing ? That modern psychiatry went from behavior-analysis of criminals, scum and murder to a broader market of salesman... um that maybe is more in touch with the main story behind psychiatrists and 'illness-management'... ? Sry, non native english speaker... but a broader view... ^^

narrator 4y ago

Yeah, it seems like everything these days is about figuring out how to get everyone motivated to have a revolution. We probably already hit peak civilization at some point over the last 20 years and this revolution stuff is just speeding up the downslope off of that.

feet 4y ago
To leave a local maximum and find the global maximum, you must traverse the graph downward
- creata 4y ago
  (The singular is "maximum", the plural is "maxima".)
  - feet 4y ago
    Thank you for the correction, fixed :)

throwaway743 4y ago

Universal healthcare and higher education doesn't seem all that much to ask for (US). Offering those seems like a solid start for improving society without unwanted, heavy handed direct action/totalitarianism.

automatic6131 4y ago
A cause worthwhile advocating for, but do you think you'll get people to stop saying that society is "sick" if you get it? Hint; Scotland has both universal healthcare and free higher education and also the highest drug deaths per person in Europe - or close to the highest.
- throwaway743 4y ago
  Are drugs decriminalized there? What's their policy regarding policing and public health as they relate to drug users? Just because universal healthcare and higher education are offered does not mean they equate to drug deaths. That's a bullshit conclusion to draw and likely is a result of many other policy/societal factors. And absolutely they will say society is sick, but wtf does that have to do with offering universal healthcare and higher education? Of course society will always be fucked in one way or another, but measures should be taken to improve quality of life for all in an attempt to make it more bearable and hopefully would contribute to finding solutions to the issues society faces

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Read Max Stirner if you want a unique take on how to fix things without resorting to revolutions or to rewiring humans.

lioeters 4y ago
> Max Stirner, was a German post-Hegelian philosopher, dealing mainly with the Hegelian notion of social alienation and self-consciousness. Stirner is often seen as one of the forerunners of nihilism, existentialism, psychoanalytic theory, postmodernism and individualist anarchism. > Stirner's egoism argues that individuals are impossible to fully comprehend, as no understanding of the self can adequately describe the fullness of experience. > He believed that everyone was propelled by their own egoism and desires and that those who accepted this — as willing egoists — could freely live their individual desires, while those who did not — as unwilling egoists — will falsely believe they are fulfilling another cause while they are secretly fulfilling their own desires for happiness and security. The willing egoist would see that they could act freely, unbound from obedience to sacred but artificial truths like law, rights, morality, and religion. > Stirner proposes that most commonly accepted social institutions — including the notion of state, property as a right, natural rights in general and the very notion of society — were mere illusions. > He advocated egoism and a form of amoralism in which individuals would unite in Unions of egoists only when it was in their self-interest to do so. For him, property simply comes about through might, saying: "Whoever knows how to take and to defend the thing, to him belongs [property]." > Stirner considers the world and everything in it, including other persons, available to one's taking or use without moral constraint and that rights do not exist in regard to objects and people at all. He sees no rationality in taking the interests of others into account unless doing so furthers one's self-interest, which he believes is the only legitimate reason for acting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Stirner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Stirner --- Isn't that what we already have, a profoundly selfish society? I don't see myself in his system - I'm neither a willing nor unwilling egoist. I consider my self-interest to be part of a larger "collective self-interest" of humanity and the ecology of life. But perhaps that's my false belief and I'm only "secretly fulfilling [my] desires for happiness and security". It could be, since the happiness of the collective supports and contributes to my personal happiness.

Bakary 4y ago

Most of the dystopian decrease we've had has come in the form of added economic surplus. We won't have a revolution and a new man, just a gradual increase in energy production until cruelty and competition is no longer the default state. Or alternatively we'll all choke on our own inventions and shortcomings.