4 ms·

Communication technology breakthroughs in history: - hierarchical networks of popes->bishops->priests->church goers (created medieval states) - printing press

by ajuc 4y ago

Communication technology breakthroughs in history: - hierarchical networks of popes->bishops->priests->church goers (created medieval states) - printing press (made reformation possible and thus caused 100 years of religious wars in Europe) - radio (made totalitarian states possible and caused WW2) - social media (made illiberal democracies possible and caused ???) As new ways of communicating with the public are created - the states have to adapt, because the older communication channels (which the states controlled) lose importance. The result is almost always violent disruption of the world order and a lot of dead people. BTW this is not my idea, Timothy Snyder said sth similar in one of his speeches (but the details might have been different).

jart 4y ago
You can't just point the finger at technology because it existed at the same time these events occurred. Those revolutions wouldn't have happened if there wasn't some kind of underlying problem to begin with. If what you're saying were true, then Occupy Wall Street would have overthrown the government, or the early Christians for instance would have had to have been using some kind of new technology to subvert the established order of Ancient Rome. Or what about the times when new forms of communication came about that didn't result in bloodbaths? For example, carrier pigeons and high-frequency trading.
- ajuc 4y ago
  There's always problems. Most of the time they are ignored. Very rarely they get solved proactively. Usually they cause one conflict after another until somebody solves it (and creates a new problems in the process). New communication technologies make this feedback loop much quicker which means the usual systems created to ignore these problems can't keep up - and all the hidden problems surface at once and cause "interesting times". Of course not all communication technologies have this power - carrier pigeons are 1-to-1 communication and don't scale. And high-frequency trading is communication only in the most dry technical sense. But once in a while there's a development which disrupts the system. And there are revolutions that happen without technological breakthroughs. It's not a "X if and only if Y", it's "vastly more X if Y". > If what you're saying were true, then Occupy Wall Street would have overthrown the government Why? I'm not saying every revolution needs to be successful. Not every reformation era war was won by the reformers. Totalitarian regimes have about 50% success rate short term and close to 0% long term.
michaelbrave 4y ago
I want to say I read somewhere once about how the railroad had huge implications in the cause of WW1 and I would guess it had a lot to do with the American Civil War as well. So I would guess not just communications technology but also transport, trade and other innovations contribute in similar kinds of upheaval.

by ajuc 4y ago

jart 4y ago

You can't just point the finger at technology because it existed at the same time these events occurred. Those revolutions wouldn't have happened if there wasn't some kind of underlying problem to begin with. If what you're saying were true, then Occupy Wall Street would have overthrown the government, or the early Christians for instance would have had to have been using some kind of new technology to subvert the established order of Ancient Rome. Or what about the times when new forms of communication came about that didn't result in bloodbaths? For example, carrier pigeons and high-frequency trading.

ajuc 4y ago
There's always problems. Most of the time they are ignored. Very rarely they get solved proactively. Usually they cause one conflict after another until somebody solves it (and creates a new problems in the process). New communication technologies make this feedback loop much quicker which means the usual systems created to ignore these problems can't keep up - and all the hidden problems surface at once and cause "interesting times". Of course not all communication technologies have this power - carrier pigeons are 1-to-1 communication and don't scale. And high-frequency trading is communication only in the most dry technical sense. But once in a while there's a development which disrupts the system. And there are revolutions that happen without technological breakthroughs. It's not a "X if and only if Y", it's "vastly more X if Y". > If what you're saying were true, then Occupy Wall Street would have overthrown the government Why? I'm not saying every revolution needs to be successful. Not every reformation era war was won by the reformers. Totalitarian regimes have about 50% success rate short term and close to 0% long term.

michaelbrave 4y ago

I want to say I read somewhere once about how the railroad had huge implications in the cause of WW1 and I would guess it had a lot to do with the American Civil War as well. So I would guess not just communications technology but also transport, trade and other innovations contribute in similar kinds of upheaval.