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> all the obvious weather changes that are already happening All the obvious weather changes that are doing what, exactly? The way that global agricultural out

> all the obvious weather changes that are already happening All the obvious weather changes that are doing what, exactly? The way that global agricultural output has increased over time[0]? The way that England is a degree or two warmer on average in the past five hundred years[1] (somewhere between the difference in going from London to Paris and London to Bordeaux, quelle horreur)? The change is there, sure, but in what way is the problem pressing enough that dealing with it is clearly better than the cost of dealing with it? Because remember, every bit of time and resource we spend on climate change could be alternatively spent in other uses that might also benefit humanity. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/food-supply https://ourworldindata.org/food-supply [1]: https://i0.wp.com/judithcurry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/slide03.png?ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/judithcurry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11...

ornornor 4y ago
I guess you haven’t heard of the floods in India earlier this year for instance[0]. Or maybe it doesn’t matter because we don’t live there and it’s nice if the winter is a little warmer whenever we go skiing; no need to wear a pesky hat anymore. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_South_Asian_floods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_South_Asian_floods
- Aerroon 4y ago
  It was really cold the other day. I guess that means global warming is called off, right? If you attribute random weather events to global warming, then random weather events to "disprove" it also count.
- prottog 4y ago
  There were no floods prior to the Industrial Revolution, I take it?
robbrown451 4y ago
Do you want people to explain why climate change is urgent, here in a comment? Your links don't say "climate change isn't a problem," they just have a tiny bit of data out of context, that very few people here have the ability to fully understand as to how they may or may not relate to climate change. Do you really think the fact that agricultural output has increased over time says much about climate change, vs. technology and population and such? Or that a 2 degree temperature change in England is a) not a problem, just because a 2 degree temperature change seems minor, or b) is really going to give non-scientists a good perspective on something like this? Unless you understand all the things involved, you really need to let the scientists do an analysis on the data, rather than your seat-of-the-pants approach. If you don't want to trust the scientists, great, but just showing a tiny bit of data and extrapolating a conclusion based on intuition probably doesn't cut it. The below is just pasted from Wikipedia, but it's a great starting point. You can follow the citations if you go to the article. Sure, it's a politicized issue so you'll always find a few on the other side. But the vast majority of scientists agree with this: Due to climate change, deserts are expanding, while heat waves and wildfires are becoming more common. Increased warming in the Arctic has contributed to melting permafrost, glacial retreat and sea ice loss. Higher temperatures are also causing more intense storms, droughts, and other weather extremes. Rapid environmental change in mountains, coral reefs, and the Arctic is forcing many species to relocate or become extinct. Climate change threatens people with food and water scarcity, increased flooding, extreme heat, more disease, and economic loss. Human migration and conflict can also be a result. The World Health Organization (WHO) calls climate change the greatest threat to global health in the 21st century. Even if efforts to minimise future warming are successful, some effects will continue for centuries. These include sea level rise, and warmer, more acidic oceans.
- tempestn 4y ago
  Not to mention the choice of England as an example, where there was literally a record-breaking heatwave this summer that killed thousands of people. Reminds me of this: https://deadline.com/2022/07/uk-tv-interview-dont-look-up-climate-change-1235073308/ https://deadline.com/2022/07/uk-tv-interview-dont-look-up-cl...
  - cimi_ 4y ago
    The article you linked says: > Hammond was right, of course, on his primary counts, as well: the temperature topped 40 degrees at London’s Heathrow airport and over 1,500 people died across Europe as a result of the heat wave. There was 'literally' one day of temperatures over 40, in a couple of places. I didn't see any data on deaths, but it wasn't 'thousands'. Before anyone jumps, I believe in climate change :) I just think this hyperbole isn't helpful.
    - tempestn 4y ago
      Depends how you count. I believe it was 1500 directly attributed, and about 3000 excess deaths. I don't think I said anything hyperbolic or inaccurate.
      - cimi_ 4y ago
        The article says 1500 in Europe, I read your message to mean 'in England'.
        tempestn 4y ago
        I was referring to England, and based the "thousands" comment on this report: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/excessmortalityduringheatperiods/englandandwales1juneto31august2022 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... > To date, 3,271 excess deaths have been recorded during heat-periods in 2022 in England and Wales. This is an average of 82 excess deaths per day, and 6.2% higher than the five-year average. The heat-period with the largest number of excess deaths was H2 (10 to 25 July) with 2,227 excess deaths (10.4% above average), an average of 139 excess deaths per day. And my point was that it is striking to talk about how climate change is no big deal in England in this context.

ornornor 4y ago

I guess you haven’t heard of the floods in India earlier this year for instance[0]. Or maybe it doesn’t matter because we don’t live there and it’s nice if the winter is a little warmer whenever we go skiing; no need to wear a pesky hat anymore. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_South_Asian_floods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_South_Asian_floods

Aerroon 4y ago
It was really cold the other day. I guess that means global warming is called off, right? If you attribute random weather events to global warming, then random weather events to "disprove" it also count.
prottog 4y ago
There were no floods prior to the Industrial Revolution, I take it?

robbrown451 4y ago

Do you want people to explain why climate change is urgent, here in a comment? Your links don't say "climate change isn't a problem," they just have a tiny bit of data out of context, that very few people here have the ability to fully understand as to how they may or may not relate to climate change. Do you really think the fact that agricultural output has increased over time says much about climate change, vs. technology and population and such? Or that a 2 degree temperature change in England is a) not a problem, just because a 2 degree temperature change seems minor, or b) is really going to give non-scientists a good perspective on something like this? Unless you understand all the things involved, you really need to let the scientists do an analysis on the data, rather than your seat-of-the-pants approach. If you don't want to trust the scientists, great, but just showing a tiny bit of data and extrapolating a conclusion based on intuition probably doesn't cut it. The below is just pasted from Wikipedia, but it's a great starting point. You can follow the citations if you go to the article. Sure, it's a politicized issue so you'll always find a few on the other side. But the vast majority of scientists agree with this: Due to climate change, deserts are expanding, while heat waves and wildfires are becoming more common. Increased warming in the Arctic has contributed to melting permafrost, glacial retreat and sea ice loss. Higher temperatures are also causing more intense storms, droughts, and other weather extremes. Rapid environmental change in mountains, coral reefs, and the Arctic is forcing many species to relocate or become extinct. Climate change threatens people with food and water scarcity, increased flooding, extreme heat, more disease, and economic loss. Human migration and conflict can also be a result. The World Health Organization (WHO) calls climate change the greatest threat to global health in the 21st century. Even if efforts to minimise future warming are successful, some effects will continue for centuries. These include sea level rise, and warmer, more acidic oceans.

tempestn 4y ago
Not to mention the choice of England as an example, where there was literally a record-breaking heatwave this summer that killed thousands of people. Reminds me of this: https://deadline.com/2022/07/uk-tv-interview-dont-look-up-climate-change-1235073308/ https://deadline.com/2022/07/uk-tv-interview-dont-look-up-cl...
- cimi_ 4y ago
  The article you linked says: > Hammond was right, of course, on his primary counts, as well: the temperature topped 40 degrees at London’s Heathrow airport and over 1,500 people died across Europe as a result of the heat wave. There was 'literally' one day of temperatures over 40, in a couple of places. I didn't see any data on deaths, but it wasn't 'thousands'. Before anyone jumps, I believe in climate change :) I just think this hyperbole isn't helpful.
  - tempestn 4y ago
    Depends how you count. I believe it was 1500 directly attributed, and about 3000 excess deaths. I don't think I said anything hyperbolic or inaccurate.
    - cimi_ 4y ago
      The article says 1500 in Europe, I read your message to mean 'in England'.
      - tempestn 4y ago
        I was referring to England, and based the "thousands" comment on this report: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/excessmortalityduringheatperiods/englandandwales1juneto31august2022 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... > To date, 3,271 excess deaths have been recorded during heat-periods in 2022 in England and Wales. This is an average of 82 excess deaths per day, and 6.2% higher than the five-year average. The heat-period with the largest number of excess deaths was H2 (10 to 25 July) with 2,227 excess deaths (10.4% above average), an average of 139 excess deaths per day. And my point was that it is striking to talk about how climate change is no big deal in England in this context.