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> Can’t we just pay these people enough to go away? “These people” is most of the population. Look at how little people have done to reduce their own meat redu

> Can’t we just pay these people enough to go away? “These people” is most of the population. Look at how little people have done to reduce their own meat reduction, transportation usage, etc. People claim they care about global warming but air travel is back in full force and US citizens are throwing shit fits about petrol prices being a little closer to other western countries. There is no corporate evil cabal keeping CO2 emissions high. It’s what the population actually wants through revealed preferences despite their expressed preferences.

woodruffw 4y ago
It’s a little bit of both: incentive structures are both established and strengthened by profit interests.
- parineum 4y ago
  It's not a little bit of both. "Greedy corporations" don't create demand or consumption. Corporations want your money so they make things you want. They don't just pump CO2 into the atmosphere for fun.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    I didn't say "greedy." But yes, corporations do induce demand: that's the entire point of advertising, and so many other mainstays of 21st century capitalism: planned obsolescence, vendor lock-in, and so forth. Consumers do not want to buy a new phone, computer, fridge, &c. every X years; they do it because it's the local maxima between short-term purchasing power and corporate profits. Nobody pumps CO2 into the atmosphere "for fun," besides a very small group of men with illegally modified trucks. But corporations do pump CO2 into the atmosphere (taken as a general metaphor for pollution) because it's an efficient method of externalization.
    - parineum 4y ago
      Without advertising, how would you know the things you want exist? Why do you remove all agency and responsibility from consumers and place it on corporations? Does it have anything to do with which one you're a part of?
      - woodruffw 4y ago
        I haven't "removed all agency." My very first comment explicitly says that responsibility is shared. I also don't want to get rid of advertising; only that it does induce demand, and that's what it exists to do. I think it would behoove you to read this thread more charitably. Edit: that being said, I don't need an advertisement to tell me that I want the majority of things in my life.
  - tchaffee 4y ago
    Of course corporations create some demand. Stuff that breaks after a few years instead of lasting generations creates demand. Google and Facebook are huge thanks to massive corporate advertising budgets. Lots of products would never survive based on need and consumer demand only. They need advertising to sell the product. And those are just the first obvious examples that come to mind.

woodruffw 4y ago

It’s a little bit of both: incentive structures are both established and strengthened by profit interests.

parineum 4y ago
It's not a little bit of both. "Greedy corporations" don't create demand or consumption. Corporations want your money so they make things you want. They don't just pump CO2 into the atmosphere for fun.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  I didn't say "greedy." But yes, corporations do induce demand: that's the entire point of advertising, and so many other mainstays of 21st century capitalism: planned obsolescence, vendor lock-in, and so forth. Consumers do not want to buy a new phone, computer, fridge, &c. every X years; they do it because it's the local maxima between short-term purchasing power and corporate profits. Nobody pumps CO2 into the atmosphere "for fun," besides a very small group of men with illegally modified trucks. But corporations do pump CO2 into the atmosphere (taken as a general metaphor for pollution) because it's an efficient method of externalization.
  - parineum 4y ago
    Without advertising, how would you know the things you want exist? Why do you remove all agency and responsibility from consumers and place it on corporations? Does it have anything to do with which one you're a part of?
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      I haven't "removed all agency." My very first comment explicitly says that responsibility is shared. I also don't want to get rid of advertising; only that it does induce demand, and that's what it exists to do. I think it would behoove you to read this thread more charitably. Edit: that being said, I don't need an advertisement to tell me that I want the majority of things in my life.
- tchaffee 4y ago
  Of course corporations create some demand. Stuff that breaks after a few years instead of lasting generations creates demand. Google and Facebook are huge thanks to massive corporate advertising budgets. Lots of products would never survive based on need and consumer demand only. They need advertising to sell the product. And those are just the first obvious examples that come to mind.