18 ms·

Political flamewars are Off-Topic on HN, but I have a feeling there's very few Nick Clegg fans amongst HN's UK readership. Out of curiosity though, does anybod

by yaseer 4y ago

Political flamewars are Off-Topic on HN, but I have a feeling there's very few Nick Clegg fans amongst HN's UK readership. Out of curiosity though, does anybody here have a positive take on Nick Clegg? I'm interested in your take, not interested in arguing.

mft_ 4y ago
Not hugely positive, but I had some sympathy for him once upon a time: I suspect he was a well-meaning but not especially strong leader of his party, who went into the coalition with mostly good intent. Once there, mind, I'm not sure why he didn't fight harder, and he lost all of the goodwill he'd built up during the election campaign through some of the policies that the coalition enacted. I appreciate he'll have made an absolute boatload of money, but going to Facebook seemed a very odd choice. Or maybe he judged that his public profile couldn't be saved, and cashing in in the US was his best option?
- jimduk 4y ago
  Agree with this. The Lib Dems had an existential crisis at that time (2010) as Labour and the Conservatives were both fighting for the centre ground and it seemed that would become the norm (deeply ironic given Corbyn, Brexit and Truss later). So Clegg rolled the dice on getting proportional representation rather than first past the post to solve this and lost. He also had a go at being less of an opposition party (where you oppose) and more of a coalition party like in Europe to get things done (post the financial crisis). This failed. Everyone hates him for tuition fees, but apparently George Osborne told him to vote against the huge raise. Had this happened I doubt people would remember him with the malice they do. Finally, he always seemed an ethical person (Lib Dems usually are excepting local election shenanigans), so the charges seem odd and out of character, but so did the move to facebook.
  - specialist 4y ago
    I don't have a dog in this fight. > apparently George Osborne told him to vote against Ha, the Conservative coaching the Lib Dem how to be a Lib Dem. That's a good friend. As others have commented, opposition parties have to oppose. Further, #1 job of party leader is to build the party. Especially for an upstart. That playbook includes symbolic defeats. To show everyone what you stand for.
  - benmmurphy 4y ago
    It could be that his ethics have been compromised by his wife. She was part of the Acciona scandal in Spain (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/10/18/uk-deputy-prime-ministers-wife-resigns-form-acciona/ https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/10/18/uk-deputy...)
  - lambertsimnel 4y ago
    That's a reasonable take, except > So Clegg rolled the dice on getting proportional representation rather than first past the post to solve this and lost. Clegg compromised on a referendum on the "Alternative Vote" (i.e. what Americans call "Instant Run-off Voting" and Australians call "Majority Preferential Voting"). Alternative Vote isn't proportional or even semi-proportional. I think he considered it a worthwhile compromise: 1) on the grounds that it's a form of Single Transferable Vote (which also has proportional forms), and 2) on the assumption it would increase votes for smaller parties and hinder the major parties from forming governments in the face of opposition by a majority of voters (the received wisdom being that there was a block of like-minded centrist and left-of-centre voters that was inefficiently divided between Labour, the Lib Dems and others, to the advantage of the Conservatives - but Clegg's deal took place after more than a decade of Labour's votes having unusually been the most efficient, and Clegg was considered part of the Lib Dems' "Orange Book" faction which was less friendly to Labour and the left than Lib Dems typically are).
- ColinHayhurst 4y ago
  Why odd? He falls as Deputy PM of 67m in the disUnited Kingdom, takes a payrise and more importantly rises to be Deputy Emperor of ~3bn in the World Wide Wall.
  - mft_ 4y ago
    Odd because I would have thought he'd be able to see how badly working for Facebook would ultimately reflect on him, and I would have thought he'd have more pride in his image. I'd have expected to see him pop up in some well-meaning public role that could lead to some image rehabilitation, rather than doubling down. But as said, maybe he judged that his image was already beyond repair, so at least he could get rich instead.
DrBazza 4y ago
In terms of personality he seemed pretty decent and professional. Perhaps it's just rose-tinted lenses, but as every year advances, the current crop of politicians in all parties just seem to be worse, and more childish than the previous lot. And that's a hard act to follow. Yet here we are.
- yaseer 4y ago
  Yes, I had several issues with Blair, Brown and Cameron for different reasons, but it seems like both parties have produced a strikingly poor crop of leaders ever since that generation holding the 'centre ground'.
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    The people - espeicially those complaining about university fees - went to the polls and firmly rejected the "centre ground" and any compromise from their political parties. Leaders since have pandered every more to their membership and their base with the message that their way is the one true way and anything else would be a disaster or treason and the other side are enemies of the people.
- umeshunni 4y ago
  > but as every year advances, the current crop of politicians in all parties just seem to be worse Or you're just getting wiser.
Moissanite 4y ago
pessimizer 4y ago
I'd bet that there would be more Clegg supporters here than in most places. The Liberals are basically EuroTories, and Clegg the version of Blair that had a Dutch mother. Sort of the perfect social liberal fiscal conservative paneuropean. edit: He also sold out his professed ideals for personal financial success, so he makes other people feel better for also doing that.
zarzavat 4y ago
> Out of curiosity though, does anybody here have a positive take on Nick Clegg? Clegg is as close you’ll find to a neutral politician. He doesn’t seek to do good, nor does he seek to do evil. He is simply out to increase his own power, and apparently wealth too. Yes he plunged an entire generation of students into debt, but he didn’t do so maliciously. They were simply in the way.
shapefrog 4y ago
He lead a party that won 62 of 650 seats and was able to enact 95% of the parties policies. Cameron and Osbonre skillfully used their junior partners to take the blame for everything unpopular while claiming credit for every good idea. The unintended consequence was to wipe out the lib dems which in turn killed off any centerism in UK politics. I think it speaks volumes about the average lib dem voter that because the purity test of 100% was not achieved despite coming 3rd in a 3 horse race it was deemed to be a disaster. Without a doubt I expect every single one of them would prefer the government they voted out to the successive governments that have come and gone since.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by yaseer 4y ago

mft_ 4y ago

Not hugely positive, but I had some sympathy for him once upon a time: I suspect he was a well-meaning but not especially strong leader of his party, who went into the coalition with mostly good intent. Once there, mind, I'm not sure why he didn't fight harder, and he lost all of the goodwill he'd built up during the election campaign through some of the policies that the coalition enacted. I appreciate he'll have made an absolute boatload of money, but going to Facebook seemed a very odd choice. Or maybe he judged that his public profile couldn't be saved, and cashing in in the US was his best option?

jimduk 4y ago
Agree with this. The Lib Dems had an existential crisis at that time (2010) as Labour and the Conservatives were both fighting for the centre ground and it seemed that would become the norm (deeply ironic given Corbyn, Brexit and Truss later). So Clegg rolled the dice on getting proportional representation rather than first past the post to solve this and lost. He also had a go at being less of an opposition party (where you oppose) and more of a coalition party like in Europe to get things done (post the financial crisis). This failed. Everyone hates him for tuition fees, but apparently George Osborne told him to vote against the huge raise. Had this happened I doubt people would remember him with the malice they do. Finally, he always seemed an ethical person (Lib Dems usually are excepting local election shenanigans), so the charges seem odd and out of character, but so did the move to facebook.
- specialist 4y ago
  I don't have a dog in this fight. > apparently George Osborne told him to vote against Ha, the Conservative coaching the Lib Dem how to be a Lib Dem. That's a good friend. As others have commented, opposition parties have to oppose. Further, #1 job of party leader is to build the party. Especially for an upstart. That playbook includes symbolic defeats. To show everyone what you stand for.
- benmmurphy 4y ago
  It could be that his ethics have been compromised by his wife. She was part of the Acciona scandal in Spain (https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/10/18/uk-deputy-prime-ministers-wife-resigns-form-acciona/ https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/10/18/uk-deputy...)
- lambertsimnel 4y ago
  That's a reasonable take, except > So Clegg rolled the dice on getting proportional representation rather than first past the post to solve this and lost. Clegg compromised on a referendum on the "Alternative Vote" (i.e. what Americans call "Instant Run-off Voting" and Australians call "Majority Preferential Voting"). Alternative Vote isn't proportional or even semi-proportional. I think he considered it a worthwhile compromise: 1) on the grounds that it's a form of Single Transferable Vote (which also has proportional forms), and 2) on the assumption it would increase votes for smaller parties and hinder the major parties from forming governments in the face of opposition by a majority of voters (the received wisdom being that there was a block of like-minded centrist and left-of-centre voters that was inefficiently divided between Labour, the Lib Dems and others, to the advantage of the Conservatives - but Clegg's deal took place after more than a decade of Labour's votes having unusually been the most efficient, and Clegg was considered part of the Lib Dems' "Orange Book" faction which was less friendly to Labour and the left than Lib Dems typically are).
ColinHayhurst 4y ago
Why odd? He falls as Deputy PM of 67m in the disUnited Kingdom, takes a payrise and more importantly rises to be Deputy Emperor of ~3bn in the World Wide Wall.
- mft_ 4y ago
  Odd because I would have thought he'd be able to see how badly working for Facebook would ultimately reflect on him, and I would have thought he'd have more pride in his image. I'd have expected to see him pop up in some well-meaning public role that could lead to some image rehabilitation, rather than doubling down. But as said, maybe he judged that his image was already beyond repair, so at least he could get rich instead.

DrBazza 4y ago

In terms of personality he seemed pretty decent and professional. Perhaps it's just rose-tinted lenses, but as every year advances, the current crop of politicians in all parties just seem to be worse, and more childish than the previous lot. And that's a hard act to follow. Yet here we are.

yaseer 4y ago
Yes, I had several issues with Blair, Brown and Cameron for different reasons, but it seems like both parties have produced a strikingly poor crop of leaders ever since that generation holding the 'centre ground'.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  The people - espeicially those complaining about university fees - went to the polls and firmly rejected the "centre ground" and any compromise from their political parties. Leaders since have pandered every more to their membership and their base with the message that their way is the one true way and anything else would be a disaster or treason and the other side are enemies of the people.
umeshunni 4y ago
> but as every year advances, the current crop of politicians in all parties just seem to be worse Or you're just getting wiser.

Moissanite 4y ago

pessimizer 4y ago

I'd bet that there would be more Clegg supporters here than in most places. The Liberals are basically EuroTories, and Clegg the version of Blair that had a Dutch mother. Sort of the perfect social liberal fiscal conservative paneuropean. edit: He also sold out his professed ideals for personal financial success, so he makes other people feel better for also doing that.

zarzavat 4y ago

> Out of curiosity though, does anybody here have a positive take on Nick Clegg? Clegg is as close you’ll find to a neutral politician. He doesn’t seek to do good, nor does he seek to do evil. He is simply out to increase his own power, and apparently wealth too. Yes he plunged an entire generation of students into debt, but he didn’t do so maliciously. They were simply in the way.

shapefrog 4y ago

He lead a party that won 62 of 650 seats and was able to enact 95% of the parties policies. Cameron and Osbonre skillfully used their junior partners to take the blame for everything unpopular while claiming credit for every good idea. The unintended consequence was to wipe out the lib dems which in turn killed off any centerism in UK politics. I think it speaks volumes about the average lib dem voter that because the purity test of 100% was not achieved despite coming 3rd in a 3 horse race it was deemed to be a disaster. Without a doubt I expect every single one of them would prefer the government they voted out to the successive governments that have come and gone since.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]