3 ms·

I'd rather wallow in my own mess than wade through someone else's though

Lio 4y ago
That maybe true but what happens when people, including yourself, switch teams? At some point we all wade through someone else’s mess. Hell, even your own mess revisited after a period of time is unpleasant. The more you can do to make your software predictable and boring the less unpleasant it will be for everyone.
- Ma8ee 4y ago
  I actually got to a point where I don't mind my own code. Even code I wrote years ago feels natural to me when I revisit it. And about the switching teams part. I much rather take over code that is written for our specific use cases than trying to wrap my head around some huge generic framework.
  - willsmith72 4y ago
    But this is the point... You don't have to "wrap my head around some huge generic framework" for every project. If you choose the right framework, it's already used in teams, projects and businesses across the world, so hiring and upskilling are far far easier than they would for a custom framework.
    - Ma8ee 4y ago
      Until something is broken, and you need to step through 40 levels of stack (certainly no exaggeration) to try to figure out where something is happening, and where that exception is swallowed. Most often it's not the framework that is broken, but you still need to understand enough of the framework to figure out what is wrong where.
soheil 4y ago
The whole point is that there won't be a mess or at least as much of it if you use a framework. How is this so lost on people here so often!
- cudgy 4y ago
  Perhaps because the framework is hiding the mess from you and you have no idea how it is accomplishing critical portions of your application. Out of sight out of mind.
  - soheil 4y ago
    Which again is the whole point. I could care less if the auto-generated SQL isn't 100% efficient, as long as it's not getting in my way and I don't have to think about it when I do User.add({}) I think you need to better examine what you consider critical and maybe try to further break down the word critical for a better understanding of where to focus your time and energy while coding.

Lio 4y ago

That maybe true but what happens when people, including yourself, switch teams? At some point we all wade through someone else’s mess. Hell, even your own mess revisited after a period of time is unpleasant. The more you can do to make your software predictable and boring the less unpleasant it will be for everyone.

Ma8ee 4y ago
I actually got to a point where I don't mind my own code. Even code I wrote years ago feels natural to me when I revisit it. And about the switching teams part. I much rather take over code that is written for our specific use cases than trying to wrap my head around some huge generic framework.
- willsmith72 4y ago
  But this is the point... You don't have to "wrap my head around some huge generic framework" for every project. If you choose the right framework, it's already used in teams, projects and businesses across the world, so hiring and upskilling are far far easier than they would for a custom framework.
  - Ma8ee 4y ago
    Until something is broken, and you need to step through 40 levels of stack (certainly no exaggeration) to try to figure out where something is happening, and where that exception is swallowed. Most often it's not the framework that is broken, but you still need to understand enough of the framework to figure out what is wrong where.

soheil 4y ago

The whole point is that there won't be a mess or at least as much of it if you use a framework. How is this so lost on people here so often!

cudgy 4y ago
Perhaps because the framework is hiding the mess from you and you have no idea how it is accomplishing critical portions of your application. Out of sight out of mind.
- soheil 4y ago
  Which again is the whole point. I could care less if the auto-generated SQL isn't 100% efficient, as long as it's not getting in my way and I don't have to think about it when I do User.add({}) I think you need to better examine what you consider critical and maybe try to further break down the word critical for a better understanding of where to focus your time and energy while coding.