> This notion that frameworks save you time is just ridicluous. Unless the framework is doing something really complicated and difficult (like, say, a 3D game e

> This notion that frameworks save you time is just ridicluous. Unless the framework is doing something really complicated and difficult (like, say, a 3D game engine such as the Unreal Engine), chances are it's costing you time and effort. ... Have you ever written a simple web app? Pull values from a db and present them somehow? Having something that just gives me places to plug in the business logic makes this pretty trivial.