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It's not just a trivial difference in bubble color. SMS conversations in iMessage lose features. The social rejection is a result of the features lost when an A

It's not just a trivial difference in bubble color. SMS conversations in iMessage lose features. The social rejection is a result of the features lost when an Android user participates in a messaging group.

alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
The social rejection is a result of teens being teens, as pointed out. Adults would use another more inclusive tool, like whatsapp, email, discord, rss, etc.
- conductr 4y ago
  I and most adults I know have never used those apps. We’re also on our ~15th iphone
  - Jtsummers 4y ago
    You've never used email?
    - conductr 4y ago
      Not with my friends. It’s also a protocol which can be used on pretty much all devices with your pick of clients so was a bad example in the list.
  - MrVandemar 4y ago
    15th iPhone? I'm 50 and I'm still on my 1st Android phone (which is a piece of crap, but I have an environmental responsibility to use it as long as possible and it still does perfectly good phone things like SMS and voice and DCSS). I've owned maybe four mobile phones in my whole life. I guess you're creating employment. See: https://www.who.int/teams/environment-climate-change-and-health/settings-populations/children/e-waste https://www.who.int/teams/environment-climate-change-and-hea...
    - stjohnswarts 4y ago
      Most people use their phone for far more than SMS and "phoning" these days. You are an anomaly these days. That's neither good nor bad, it just is.
      - Sjeiti 4y ago
        I'm on my fifth smartphone (since 2009). But I've always used Android. It could be that iOS users are more inclined to replace perfectly working hardware.
        lostlogin 4y ago
        Not all of us. Gigantic phones are off putting. Every few years Apple tries making a mini and that’s the time to buy. I’m fairly tall and have size appropriate hands (I think). I struggle to reach the top corners of my 12 mini. It’s very irritating.
      - conductr 4y ago
        Agree GP is an anomaly and will say 15 could be an exaggeration a bit. I don’t know really but iPhone has been around a long time now and people seem to replace typically every 1-2 years.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Not in most European or African countries, majority is on pre-paid, and phones only get replaced when there is an actual reason, not that two years have gone by.
        formerly_proven 4y ago
        ~80 % market share for contracts (post-paid) in Germany: https://www.statista.com/topics/7772/mobile-communications-in-germany/ https://www.statista.com/topics/7772/mobile-communications-i...
  - cykros 4y ago
    This is a result of adults being teens. Some people get comfortable.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Ok, so you're likely either not bothered by the messaging differences or not don't experience them. Now take a moment to imagine someone tries to tell you that your messaging system makes you not desirable in a group. What do you do as an adult? Spend extra money to comply with their ideas, or tell them to either use alternatives, or get over it? Does the fact you've never used those apps even factor into the decision? For context, in many places outside of the us the question is simply "which app do you use" and then you use that like an adult that you are.
    - conductr 4y ago
      As I said, everyone I know is on apple so no I don’t notice the difference. I have seen a couple occasional when non Apple users are on a group text and it breaks some things. I can totally see how teens are judging each other on this. They’re judgmental creatures in search of social cues to judge you on. Having android is analogous to wearing cheap Walmart clothes in my day. You’re social clout takes a huge hit. I get it and have empathy, but no solutions as I really think it’s kids being kids and I don’t think Apple as a business should be regulated towards an open protocol (only actual solution). I’ll never know what it’s like to be a teen that texts or has a smart phone because I didn’t experience it. But I hear teens don’t care about cars these days and that was a crucial part of being a teen with a thriving social life where/when I grew up. You’d get teased for not having one or having a old/ugly one. You were excluded from social activities if you couldn’t find transportation. You couldn’t take someone out on a date and it actually impacted whether you were even worth dating. And, it was very expensive for a teenager. The difference with adults is we don’t give each other a hard time about it. Or too much anyways. We will however absolutely refuse to use whatever app you ask us to if we’re am not using it already. We’re also probably not using it already. Most of us bought iPhone at the beginning and have never really considered anything else. That’s why we’ve owned so many of their phones. I’m not European but I find the idea that I should accept I have to context switch between apps based on who I’m talking to be insane. All my texting is in one app, just like email, phone, maps, etc. I might be simplistic but apps are pretty sticky for me once I choose a default for _activity_. I might be wrong, but if I remember correctly the reason the texting apps exploded over there was because you all had bad or expensive SMS originally. iMessage didn’t exist until 2011/iOS 5 and was likely Apple’s response from competition from rapidly growing companies like WhatsApp.
- dzikimarian 4y ago
  You might wanna check out yesterday's discussion about Signal loosing support for SMS and see adults perspective on this very subject.
nomel 4y ago
> SMS conversations in iMessage lose features. "Lose" makes it sound like they could be found. Are the features even possible to implement with SMS?
- redavni 4y ago
  Technically yes, Realistically there isn't a need. The iMessage feature set has been mostly matched by RCS on Android. Apple does not want compatible messaging.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    Google's version of RCS on Android is a proprietary closed source fork of RCS that Google refuses to provide a public API for. > Google's version of RCS—the one promoted on the website with Google-exclusive features like optional encryption—is definitely proprietary, by the way. If this is supposed to be a standard, there's no way for a third-party to use Google's RCS APIs right now. Some messaging apps, like Beeper, have asked Google about integrating RCS and were told there's no public RCS API and no plans to build one. If you want to implement RCS, you'll need to run the messages through some kind of service, and who provides that server? It will probably be Google. So the pitch for Apple to adopt RCS isn't just this public-good nonsense about making texts with Android users better; it's also about running Apple's messages through Google servers. Google profits in both server fees and data acquisition. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs... SMS is a universal standard supported by even the oldest devices that will still connect to current cellular networks.
    - saxonww 4y ago
      To be fair, I don't think Apple has opened up iMessage either, otherwise this problem would have solved itself already with a third-party app.
      - GeekyBear 4y ago
Someone 4y ago
And the alternative is that they wouldn’t be able to participate at all. In the end, I think the social rejection isn’t Apple to blame for. We don’t blame clothing brands for enabling kids to discern who wears ‘the real thing’ and who hasn’t, either. Or do we want to blame Apple for trying to improve SMS for their users without going through a lengthy standards process? They were a small player at the time in the phone market, so they couldn’t expect an iPhone-only solution to succeed, and writing an app wasn’t really a thing yet, so they couldn’t have gone the route WhatsApp later took, so what could they have done instead? The colors are UI to indicate to their users who has access to the improvements and who hasn’t. If Apple didn’t indicate in any way that some people have different features available to them, I think people would blame them for that. Also, US (AFAIK, this is a US thing) kids likely would still learn who could and could not use the features Apple added to SMS.
- jackvalentine 4y ago
  > They were a small player at the time in the phone market, so they couldn’t expect an iPhone-only solution to succeed, and writing an app wasn’t really a thing yet, so they couldn’t have gone the route WhatsApp later took, so what could they have done instead? Mate, iMessage debuted in 2011 - 2 years after Whatsapp appeared on the platform.

alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago

The social rejection is a result of teens being teens, as pointed out. Adults would use another more inclusive tool, like whatsapp, email, discord, rss, etc.

conductr 4y ago
I and most adults I know have never used those apps. We’re also on our ~15th iphone
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  You've never used email?
  - conductr 4y ago
    Not with my friends. It’s also a protocol which can be used on pretty much all devices with your pick of clients so was a bad example in the list.
- MrVandemar 4y ago
  15th iPhone? I'm 50 and I'm still on my 1st Android phone (which is a piece of crap, but I have an environmental responsibility to use it as long as possible and it still does perfectly good phone things like SMS and voice and DCSS). I've owned maybe four mobile phones in my whole life. I guess you're creating employment. See: https://www.who.int/teams/environment-climate-change-and-health/settings-populations/children/e-waste https://www.who.int/teams/environment-climate-change-and-hea...
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    Most people use their phone for far more than SMS and "phoning" these days. You are an anomaly these days. That's neither good nor bad, it just is.
    - Sjeiti 4y ago
      I'm on my fifth smartphone (since 2009). But I've always used Android. It could be that iOS users are more inclined to replace perfectly working hardware.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
        Not all of us. Gigantic phones are off putting. Every few years Apple tries making a mini and that’s the time to buy. I’m fairly tall and have size appropriate hands (I think). I struggle to reach the top corners of my 12 mini. It’s very irritating.
    - conductr 4y ago
      Agree GP is an anomaly and will say 15 could be an exaggeration a bit. I don’t know really but iPhone has been around a long time now and people seem to replace typically every 1-2 years.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Not in most European or African countries, majority is on pre-paid, and phones only get replaced when there is an actual reason, not that two years have gone by.
        formerly_proven 4y ago
        ~80 % market share for contracts (post-paid) in Germany: https://www.statista.com/topics/7772/mobile-communications-in-germany/ https://www.statista.com/topics/7772/mobile-communications-i...
- cykros 4y ago
  This is a result of adults being teens. Some people get comfortable.
- viraptor 4y ago
  Ok, so you're likely either not bothered by the messaging differences or not don't experience them. Now take a moment to imagine someone tries to tell you that your messaging system makes you not desirable in a group. What do you do as an adult? Spend extra money to comply with their ideas, or tell them to either use alternatives, or get over it? Does the fact you've never used those apps even factor into the decision? For context, in many places outside of the us the question is simply "which app do you use" and then you use that like an adult that you are.
  - conductr 4y ago
    As I said, everyone I know is on apple so no I don’t notice the difference. I have seen a couple occasional when non Apple users are on a group text and it breaks some things. I can totally see how teens are judging each other on this. They’re judgmental creatures in search of social cues to judge you on. Having android is analogous to wearing cheap Walmart clothes in my day. You’re social clout takes a huge hit. I get it and have empathy, but no solutions as I really think it’s kids being kids and I don’t think Apple as a business should be regulated towards an open protocol (only actual solution). I’ll never know what it’s like to be a teen that texts or has a smart phone because I didn’t experience it. But I hear teens don’t care about cars these days and that was a crucial part of being a teen with a thriving social life where/when I grew up. You’d get teased for not having one or having a old/ugly one. You were excluded from social activities if you couldn’t find transportation. You couldn’t take someone out on a date and it actually impacted whether you were even worth dating. And, it was very expensive for a teenager. The difference with adults is we don’t give each other a hard time about it. Or too much anyways. We will however absolutely refuse to use whatever app you ask us to if we’re am not using it already. We’re also probably not using it already. Most of us bought iPhone at the beginning and have never really considered anything else. That’s why we’ve owned so many of their phones. I’m not European but I find the idea that I should accept I have to context switch between apps based on who I’m talking to be insane. All my texting is in one app, just like email, phone, maps, etc. I might be simplistic but apps are pretty sticky for me once I choose a default for _activity_. I might be wrong, but if I remember correctly the reason the texting apps exploded over there was because you all had bad or expensive SMS originally. iMessage didn’t exist until 2011/iOS 5 and was likely Apple’s response from competition from rapidly growing companies like WhatsApp.
dzikimarian 4y ago
You might wanna check out yesterday's discussion about Signal loosing support for SMS and see adults perspective on this very subject.

nomel 4y ago

> SMS conversations in iMessage lose features. "Lose" makes it sound like they could be found. Are the features even possible to implement with SMS?

redavni 4y ago
Technically yes, Realistically there isn't a need. The iMessage feature set has been mostly matched by RCS on Android. Apple does not want compatible messaging.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  Google's version of RCS on Android is a proprietary closed source fork of RCS that Google refuses to provide a public API for. > Google's version of RCS—the one promoted on the website with Google-exclusive features like optional encryption—is definitely proprietary, by the way. If this is supposed to be a standard, there's no way for a third-party to use Google's RCS APIs right now. Some messaging apps, like Beeper, have asked Google about integrating RCS and were told there's no public RCS API and no plans to build one. If you want to implement RCS, you'll need to run the messages through some kind of service, and who provides that server? It will probably be Google. So the pitch for Apple to adopt RCS isn't just this public-good nonsense about making texts with Android users better; it's also about running Apple's messages through Google servers. Google profits in both server fees and data acquisition. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs... SMS is a universal standard supported by even the oldest devices that will still connect to current cellular networks.
  - saxonww 4y ago
    To be fair, I don't think Apple has opened up iMessage either, otherwise this problem would have solved itself already with a third-party app.
    - GeekyBear 4y ago

Someone 4y ago

And the alternative is that they wouldn’t be able to participate at all. In the end, I think the social rejection isn’t Apple to blame for. We don’t blame clothing brands for enabling kids to discern who wears ‘the real thing’ and who hasn’t, either. Or do we want to blame Apple for trying to improve SMS for their users without going through a lengthy standards process? They were a small player at the time in the phone market, so they couldn’t expect an iPhone-only solution to succeed, and writing an app wasn’t really a thing yet, so they couldn’t have gone the route WhatsApp later took, so what could they have done instead? The colors are UI to indicate to their users who has access to the improvements and who hasn’t. If Apple didn’t indicate in any way that some people have different features available to them, I think people would blame them for that. Also, US (AFAIK, this is a US thing) kids likely would still learn who could and could not use the features Apple added to SMS.

jackvalentine 4y ago
> They were a small player at the time in the phone market, so they couldn’t expect an iPhone-only solution to succeed, and writing an app wasn’t really a thing yet, so they couldn’t have gone the route WhatsApp later took, so what could they have done instead? Mate, iMessage debuted in 2011 - 2 years after Whatsapp appeared on the platform.