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Interestingly, I am a heavy Apple user, and I am trying to convince my teenage daughter and wife to use iPhone and have offered them iPhone and Apple Watch, and

Interestingly, I am a heavy Apple user, and I am trying to convince my teenage daughter and wife to use iPhone and have offered them iPhone and Apple Watch, and they have strongly preferred to stay on Android. I think it's unsurprising most people use / want to use an iPhone in the US, because it has a network effect with iMessage and it's clearly a superior experience for the average person. But, globally that network effect doesn't exist, so it makes sense in a more international sense that many people would prefer being in the Android ecosystem. The claim doesn't surprise me, but I definitely think it shouldn't be taken as universal.

eagsalazar2 4y ago
It is not clearly a better experience. Give me a break. 99% of the time it is a grid of icons that launches apps. The notification area on Android is far superior and is actually quite useful compared to iOS where it is a jumbled mess. Apps on both platforms, more and more, are virtually identical. If you want integration with apple watch, then great use apple but your blanket statement about superior experience is exactly the pernicious "network effect" (fanboi-ism) these kids are being hit with.
- tristor 4y ago
  My statement doesn't come out of any sort of fanboyism, I was an Android developer and built custom ROMs for many years, was heavily into Android in the beginning, and I still use and support Android devices in my home (see above). It /is/ clearly a better experience for several reasons, not the least of which is the difference in privacy stance and the tighter integrations for families. I do not want to re-litigate this every time I comment in one of these threads, because it's annoying, irrelevant to my central point, and obnoxious. If you wish to engage, please engage me on the central point I was making, not on an aside.
  - eagsalazar2 4y ago
    If it isn't central to your main point and you don't want to re-litigate, then why make comments that are debatable and are guaranteed to be obnoxious to many people? After saying you don't want to re-litigate, you then repeated your inflammatory claim and trotted out evidence to support your belief. I won't bother trotting out my counter-examples, but just saying, if you prefer iOS good for you, but you did provoke this. Or maybe you meant to say "It /is/ clearly a better experience in several specific ways that matter to me"?
- RockRobotRock 4y ago
  Man, kids aren't stupid. They see a busted, slow old phone running 2 or more major versions of Android behind, that puts a bad taste in their mouth. Apple has made many deliberate steps to appeal to youth, iMessage playing some part, but that's not the whole picture. Kids want something that works and is as fast as they are.
- Avamander 4y ago
  Like the person you've replied to, I have built custom ROMs and still do Android development, and I agree with their assessment. Will you dismiss my opinion as well? What is your metric based on which you label people fanboys? Notifications might be better, but the random bugs and glitches, endless vendor whims and all the inconsistencies are simply not worth it. Holistically iOS and its ecosystem are more consistent, faster and have fewer bugs. If you add the entire Apple ecosystem to the mix, it is a clearly better experience.
  - eagsalazar2 4y ago
    Your comment is so crazy, seriously. I said it was not clearly better. I never claimed the opposite either. I never gave my opinion at all except to say, essentially "it's debatable". You are the one dismissing everyone who likes Android and accusing people who just say they disagree of shutting you down which I never did. The fanboy was true of the parent and is true of you, a fanboy is someone who is so in love with their own POV that they categorically claim their favorite phone os (give me a break) is the best, and then when someone even tries to say that isn't "clearly" true, they then get so defensive that they attack that person claiming that they were attacked. So yeah I'll stand by my fanboy comments, you have validated them.
    - Avamander 4y ago
      Thanks for confirming what I predicted, nothing is sufficient to disagree with you.
alphabetting 4y ago
It's definitely not universal. The imessage effect has been instrumental to Apple's market share in US so they won't be altering that.
hotpotamus 4y ago
Yeah, my mother is basically the only one in my family who uses Android, so when Tim Cook ticked a bunch of people off the other month by suggesting that we should buy our moms iPhones, I suggested it to her. She doesn't really know the difference between Android and iPhone, but she seems ideologically opposed to paying more than a drug dealer would spend on a burner phone because "that's all she needs". It's pretty frustrating because when she has problems, she asks me for help and isn't all that happy when I tell her to get an iPhone. It was also very frustrating when trying to share photos to put together a slideshow for a funeral. And on that subject, it's her primary camera now and the quality leaves a lot to be desired on that front. On the other hand, it's kind of amazing how much an $80 Android phone can do, and that it can take passable pictures at all, so I sort of see her point too. And obviously there are quite high end options as well.
- tristor 4y ago
  > It was also very frustrating when trying to share photos to put together a slideshow for a funeral. And on that subject, it's her primary camera now and the quality leaves a lot to be desired on that front. This is actually one of the main reasons why my other family members prefer to stay on Android. While the average Android handset may not have a camera better than an iPhone, the best phone cameras are generally on Android handsets. This is partly just because Android runs on handsets from many different manufacturers and everyone competes on camera / picture quality for their flagship phones, and there is iterative improvements in technology over time. While the recent DXOMark report disagrees, in our testing ourselves, the S22 Ultra outperforms the iPhone 14 Pro, although both capture very good photos.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    Yep, the problem is the burner Androids bringing down the average. Basically every phone that I've used in the past decade has had a decent camera, but I'm aware that the premium Androids have some superlatives in that department.

eagsalazar2 4y ago

It is not clearly a better experience. Give me a break. 99% of the time it is a grid of icons that launches apps. The notification area on Android is far superior and is actually quite useful compared to iOS where it is a jumbled mess. Apps on both platforms, more and more, are virtually identical. If you want integration with apple watch, then great use apple but your blanket statement about superior experience is exactly the pernicious "network effect" (fanboi-ism) these kids are being hit with.

tristor 4y ago
My statement doesn't come out of any sort of fanboyism, I was an Android developer and built custom ROMs for many years, was heavily into Android in the beginning, and I still use and support Android devices in my home (see above). It /is/ clearly a better experience for several reasons, not the least of which is the difference in privacy stance and the tighter integrations for families. I do not want to re-litigate this every time I comment in one of these threads, because it's annoying, irrelevant to my central point, and obnoxious. If you wish to engage, please engage me on the central point I was making, not on an aside.
- eagsalazar2 4y ago
  If it isn't central to your main point and you don't want to re-litigate, then why make comments that are debatable and are guaranteed to be obnoxious to many people? After saying you don't want to re-litigate, you then repeated your inflammatory claim and trotted out evidence to support your belief. I won't bother trotting out my counter-examples, but just saying, if you prefer iOS good for you, but you did provoke this. Or maybe you meant to say "It /is/ clearly a better experience in several specific ways that matter to me"?
RockRobotRock 4y ago
Man, kids aren't stupid. They see a busted, slow old phone running 2 or more major versions of Android behind, that puts a bad taste in their mouth. Apple has made many deliberate steps to appeal to youth, iMessage playing some part, but that's not the whole picture. Kids want something that works and is as fast as they are.
Avamander 4y ago
Like the person you've replied to, I have built custom ROMs and still do Android development, and I agree with their assessment. Will you dismiss my opinion as well? What is your metric based on which you label people fanboys? Notifications might be better, but the random bugs and glitches, endless vendor whims and all the inconsistencies are simply not worth it. Holistically iOS and its ecosystem are more consistent, faster and have fewer bugs. If you add the entire Apple ecosystem to the mix, it is a clearly better experience.
- eagsalazar2 4y ago
  Your comment is so crazy, seriously. I said it was not clearly better. I never claimed the opposite either. I never gave my opinion at all except to say, essentially "it's debatable". You are the one dismissing everyone who likes Android and accusing people who just say they disagree of shutting you down which I never did. The fanboy was true of the parent and is true of you, a fanboy is someone who is so in love with their own POV that they categorically claim their favorite phone os (give me a break) is the best, and then when someone even tries to say that isn't "clearly" true, they then get so defensive that they attack that person claiming that they were attacked. So yeah I'll stand by my fanboy comments, you have validated them.
  - Avamander 4y ago
    Thanks for confirming what I predicted, nothing is sufficient to disagree with you.

alphabetting 4y ago

It's definitely not universal. The imessage effect has been instrumental to Apple's market share in US so they won't be altering that.

hotpotamus 4y ago

Yeah, my mother is basically the only one in my family who uses Android, so when Tim Cook ticked a bunch of people off the other month by suggesting that we should buy our moms iPhones, I suggested it to her. She doesn't really know the difference between Android and iPhone, but she seems ideologically opposed to paying more than a drug dealer would spend on a burner phone because "that's all she needs". It's pretty frustrating because when she has problems, she asks me for help and isn't all that happy when I tell her to get an iPhone. It was also very frustrating when trying to share photos to put together a slideshow for a funeral. And on that subject, it's her primary camera now and the quality leaves a lot to be desired on that front. On the other hand, it's kind of amazing how much an $80 Android phone can do, and that it can take passable pictures at all, so I sort of see her point too. And obviously there are quite high end options as well.

tristor 4y ago
> It was also very frustrating when trying to share photos to put together a slideshow for a funeral. And on that subject, it's her primary camera now and the quality leaves a lot to be desired on that front. This is actually one of the main reasons why my other family members prefer to stay on Android. While the average Android handset may not have a camera better than an iPhone, the best phone cameras are generally on Android handsets. This is partly just because Android runs on handsets from many different manufacturers and everyone competes on camera / picture quality for their flagship phones, and there is iterative improvements in technology over time. While the recent DXOMark report disagrees, in our testing ourselves, the S22 Ultra outperforms the iPhone 14 Pro, although both capture very good photos.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Yep, the problem is the burner Androids bringing down the average. Basically every phone that I've used in the past decade has had a decent camera, but I'm aware that the premium Androids have some superlatives in that department.