5 ms·

The people who released opioids upon the American public didn't get fines like this. Insane

sneak 4y ago
Cigarettes kill 7x as many as opiates in the USA every hour, day, week, month, and year. Those companies aren't even fined or put behind a prescription-wall.
- permo-w 4y ago
  that is true but they also aren't allowed to advertise, have massive additional taxes placed on them, and huge public information campaigns against their use
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  Adding some numbers: [1] gives ~480k cigarette deaths, [2] gives 107k drug deaths with ~80k of those from opiods which is an approx 6:1 ratio (close enough!) [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/202205.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  This is uninformed. The Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement has cost the tobacco industry north of $200 billion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre...
  - 93po 4y ago
    So that money gets paid to the states to cover medical costs related to smoking? Is there any documentation of people getting free healthcare for their smoking related illnesses? I sure as heck haven't ever heard of this.
shadowgovt 4y ago
Jones did an impressive job of maximizing his liability directly via his words on the stand. Pharmaceutical companies, in general, know how to listen to their lawyers and shut the hell up.
- warbeforepeace 4y ago
  Just "know how to listen". Alex listens to no one which was clear in both trials and also why he couldn't keep an attorney.
myko 4y ago
> Insane It's insane that they didn't. If you look at the fine, you will see that many families were affected. There is nothing unreasonable about that amount of money awarded from that perspective.
o_1 4y ago
Those people funded super pacs and politicians.
tainfowars0320 4y ago
thwayunion 4y ago
The fines for opioid producers and various enablers are in excess of $26 billion and still counting. Not nearly enough, mind you, but still -- much higher than the amount being discussed here. There are also two important distinctions: 1. The American court system is inherently adversarial and judges/juries have a lot of discretion. The strategy employed by the defense does matter and a bad strategy can be expensive. If the lawyers in the opioid cases had employed the strategies used by Jones and his lawyers -- instead of working hard to get a settlement -- their damages would likely have been an order of magnitude larger than $26B & the executives behaving like Jones would be in jail. Jones, in many ways, has only himself to blame for the size of these damages. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 2. The $26B and counting will actually be paid. I would guess that Jones will only ever end up paying a small faction of the <$1B.
- account42 4y ago
  > The fines for opioid producers and various enablers are in excess of $26 billion and still counting. Note that gp said "people who released opioids upon the American public". How much of those $26 billion fines are towards individuals that profited from those opioids rather than some fictional entity that can just be re-created as needed.
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    How much of the $1B will be paid by Jones vs by Free Speech Systems? Free Speech Systems is a co-defendant in the Jones case and is likely the entity that will pay out the vast majority of the damages. The Sackler family was listed alongside Purdue pharma. More importantly, personal liability in opioid cases goes FAR beyond civil damages. Dozens of physicians have received fines comparable in net worth to that fine Jones received. Much more important, those physicians have also received prison sentences. Opioid litigation is still ongoing, so the $26B is a floor not a ceiling, and the settlement didn't preclude further prosecution or litigation against a large number of potential defendants. Jail time and additional financial penalties remain on the table and a real possibility, including for individual drug company execs and major shareholders. In fact, at least one drug co exec has already been charged criminally, found guilty, and received a prison sentence. If any drug company exec or investor acted as brazenly as Jones has, they will certainly receive a huge financial penalty and a stiff prison sentence. Unfortunately, most of those people are much smarter than Jones so prosecution won't be nearly as open-and-shut.

Cigarettes kill 7x as many as opiates in the USA every hour, day, week, month, and year. Those companies aren't even fined or put behind a prescription-wall.

permo-w 4y ago
that is true but they also aren't allowed to advertise, have massive additional taxes placed on them, and huge public information campaigns against their use
zimpenfish 4y ago
Adding some numbers: [1] gives ~480k cigarette deaths, [2] gives 107k drug deaths with ~80k of those from opiods which is an approx 6:1 ratio (close enough!) [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/202205.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
anigbrowl 4y ago
This is uninformed. The Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement has cost the tobacco industry north of $200 billion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre...
- 93po 4y ago
  So that money gets paid to the states to cover medical costs related to smoking? Is there any documentation of people getting free healthcare for their smoking related illnesses? I sure as heck haven't ever heard of this.

shadowgovt 4y ago

Jones did an impressive job of maximizing his liability directly via his words on the stand. Pharmaceutical companies, in general, know how to listen to their lawyers and shut the hell up.

warbeforepeace 4y ago
Just "know how to listen". Alex listens to no one which was clear in both trials and also why he couldn't keep an attorney.

myko 4y ago

> Insane It's insane that they didn't. If you look at the fine, you will see that many families were affected. There is nothing unreasonable about that amount of money awarded from that perspective.

o_1 4y ago

Those people funded super pacs and politicians.

tainfowars0320 4y ago

thwayunion 4y ago

The fines for opioid producers and various enablers are in excess of $26 billion and still counting. Not nearly enough, mind you, but still -- much higher than the amount being discussed here. There are also two important distinctions: 1. The American court system is inherently adversarial and judges/juries have a lot of discretion. The strategy employed by the defense does matter and a bad strategy can be expensive. If the lawyers in the opioid cases had employed the strategies used by Jones and his lawyers -- instead of working hard to get a settlement -- their damages would likely have been an order of magnitude larger than $26B & the executives behaving like Jones would be in jail. Jones, in many ways, has only himself to blame for the size of these damages. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 2. The $26B and counting will actually be paid. I would guess that Jones will only ever end up paying a small faction of the <$1B.

account42 4y ago
> The fines for opioid producers and various enablers are in excess of $26 billion and still counting. Note that gp said "people who released opioids upon the American public". How much of those $26 billion fines are towards individuals that profited from those opioids rather than some fictional entity that can just be re-created as needed.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  How much of the $1B will be paid by Jones vs by Free Speech Systems? Free Speech Systems is a co-defendant in the Jones case and is likely the entity that will pay out the vast majority of the damages. The Sackler family was listed alongside Purdue pharma. More importantly, personal liability in opioid cases goes FAR beyond civil damages. Dozens of physicians have received fines comparable in net worth to that fine Jones received. Much more important, those physicians have also received prison sentences. Opioid litigation is still ongoing, so the $26B is a floor not a ceiling, and the settlement didn't preclude further prosecution or litigation against a large number of potential defendants. Jail time and additional financial penalties remain on the table and a real possibility, including for individual drug company execs and major shareholders. In fact, at least one drug co exec has already been charged criminally, found guilty, and received a prison sentence. If any drug company exec or investor acted as brazenly as Jones has, they will certainly receive a huge financial penalty and a stiff prison sentence. Unfortunately, most of those people are much smarter than Jones so prosecution won't be nearly as open-and-shut.