4 ms·

I think the problem with evaporation being made a point of by the GP is that ultimately the water cycle isn't definite on where it will put that water back. Wat

by Manu40 4y ago

I think the problem with evaporation being made a point of by the GP is that ultimately the water cycle isn't definite on where it will put that water back. Water vapor can travel great distances to the point where the vapor in the breath you exude right now could end up in someone else drinking water some days or years from now, on another continent. But ultimately no, the water doesn't just disappear forever. It just moves to a new location. That is, unless you are doing things that literally split the bonds of the molecules and revert it from being water at all. But that's a whole other level of discussion. (And it's why I am against any form of energy that requires splitting water to create hydrogen. I would much rather we just put our efforts into going to space to collect the hydrogen there instead. Taking it from sea water is, in my honest opinion; extremely foolish.)

space_fountain 4y ago
Well anything you do with the hydrogen turns it back into water
- Manu40 4y ago
  I mean, assuming you are combusting it in a oxidizing reaction maybe, sure. But then, hydrogen peroxide isn't exactly water. Too much oxygen added isn't exactly what we want, I would assume.
  - puffoflogic 4y ago
    In air, the combustion product of H2 is considered to be water, not hydrogen peroxide.
    - Manu40 4y ago
      Sorry if I was confusing, but I was implying that just adding oxygen doesn't = water always. 5 oxygen = Hydrogen Peroxide, not water. Yes, I understand that if you combust hydrogen in just a basic oxygen reaction you will get water; but not everything is as basic as that. Plus, the atmosphere itself is not "just oxygen". There is also nitrogen, methane, and more I am not sure of which to list here; but they are there. In fact, I am so sure of my opinion on this, I just did a quick google search on the idea of "does combusting hydrogen always produce water" to be as fair as possible to all parties. And the answer is no. At least according to these people, and other links can be found as well if you use the same search term. https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CUnlike%20fossil%20fuels%2C%20which%20emit,Answer%3A%20false https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:tex.... Sorry if I seem pedantic, but I am used to these sorts of things being the case, because society has a bad habit of misleading the public to get them on board with 'new' ideas. Hence my commentary. Here is an excerpt: "The bad news is that H2 combustion can produce dangerously high levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx). Two European studies have found that burning hydrogen-enriched natural gas in an industrial setting can lead to NOx emissions up to six times that of methane (the most common element in natural gas mixes).[17],[18] There are numerous other studies in the scientific literature about the difficulties of controlling NOx emissions from H2 combustion in various industrial applications." I highly suggest every single person who supports Hydrogen as a fuel source to consider what they are claiming in the link provided. They provide many sources for their claims, and I might add... it makes sense. Unlike "All hydrogen combustion in atmosphere produces only water." Now to be fair to you all, I would have been better off to use the Nitrogen Oxide example, but to be quite honest, I kind of missed that part too. Hence my example using hydrogen peroxide instead, since technically a oxygen rich environment could theoretically produce it (i think). And just in case that's not a good enough source for whoever: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037c#:~:text=The%20burning%20of%20hydrogen%20can,the%20combustion%20of%20fossil%20fuels https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037....
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  Except what escapes into the atmosphere; I think a substantial portion of that escapes the atmosphere entirely.
- Manu40 4y ago
  https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CUnlike%20fossil%20fuels%2C%20which%20emit,Answer%3A%20false https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:tex.... So I did some digging, because my brain was still going "no this is wrong". And seems the Clean Energy Group has the details we all want to see on this. Assuming they are a legitimate source of information; the answer is no it doesn't. And just in case that's not a good enough source, here: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037c#:~:text=The%20burning%20of%20hydrogen%20can,the%20combustion%20of%20fossil%20fuels https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037....
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> And it's why I am against any form of energy that requires splitting water to create hydrogen. growing tomatoes also splits water to create hydrocarbons, doesn't it? That's where the hydrogen in organic matter comes from, right?

by Manu40 4y ago

space_fountain 4y ago

Well anything you do with the hydrogen turns it back into water

Manu40 4y ago
I mean, assuming you are combusting it in a oxidizing reaction maybe, sure. But then, hydrogen peroxide isn't exactly water. Too much oxygen added isn't exactly what we want, I would assume.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  In air, the combustion product of H2 is considered to be water, not hydrogen peroxide.
  - Manu40 4y ago
    Sorry if I was confusing, but I was implying that just adding oxygen doesn't = water always. 5 oxygen = Hydrogen Peroxide, not water. Yes, I understand that if you combust hydrogen in just a basic oxygen reaction you will get water; but not everything is as basic as that. Plus, the atmosphere itself is not "just oxygen". There is also nitrogen, methane, and more I am not sure of which to list here; but they are there. In fact, I am so sure of my opinion on this, I just did a quick google search on the idea of "does combusting hydrogen always produce water" to be as fair as possible to all parties. And the answer is no. At least according to these people, and other links can be found as well if you use the same search term. https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CUnlike%20fossil%20fuels%2C%20which%20emit,Answer%3A%20false https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:tex.... Sorry if I seem pedantic, but I am used to these sorts of things being the case, because society has a bad habit of misleading the public to get them on board with 'new' ideas. Hence my commentary. Here is an excerpt: "The bad news is that H2 combustion can produce dangerously high levels of nitrogen oxide (NOx). Two European studies have found that burning hydrogen-enriched natural gas in an industrial setting can lead to NOx emissions up to six times that of methane (the most common element in natural gas mixes).[17],[18] There are numerous other studies in the scientific literature about the difficulties of controlling NOx emissions from H2 combustion in various industrial applications." I highly suggest every single person who supports Hydrogen as a fuel source to consider what they are claiming in the link provided. They provide many sources for their claims, and I might add... it makes sense. Unlike "All hydrogen combustion in atmosphere produces only water." Now to be fair to you all, I would have been better off to use the Nitrogen Oxide example, but to be quite honest, I kind of missed that part too. Hence my example using hydrogen peroxide instead, since technically a oxygen rich environment could theoretically produce it (i think). And just in case that's not a good enough source for whoever: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037c#:~:text=The%20burning%20of%20hydrogen%20can,the%20combustion%20of%20fossil%20fuels https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037....
puffoflogic 4y ago
Except what escapes into the atmosphere; I think a substantial portion of that escapes the atmosphere entirely.
Manu40 4y ago
https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CUnlike%20fossil%20fuels%2C%20which%20emit,Answer%3A%20false https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/#:~:tex.... So I did some digging, because my brain was still going "no this is wrong". And seems the Clean Energy Group has the details we all want to see on this. Assuming they are a legitimate source of information; the answer is no it doesn't. And just in case that's not a good enough source, here: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037c#:~:text=The%20burning%20of%20hydrogen%20can,the%20combustion%20of%20fossil%20fuels https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2021/ea/d1ea00037....

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

> And it's why I am against any form of energy that requires splitting water to create hydrogen. growing tomatoes also splits water to create hydrocarbons, doesn't it? That's where the hydrogen in organic matter comes from, right?