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We need public auditing of these organizations. Organization that operate secretly will always provide some refuge for corruption. There are always blind spot

We need public auditing of these organizations. Organization that operate secretly will always provide some refuge for corruption. There are always blind spots for management. If the public has no input, how can we ever trust them?

NickC25 4y ago
Good ideas, and ideas that I support 100%, but in practice it seems to be impossible. IIRC we still haven't gotten a full audit of the Pentagon / DOD, and a majority of their operations are probably a bit more public than the NSA's or other secretive-by-design bureaucracy. How would we be able to audit an organization (in a timely manner) that puts up as many roadblocks as possible? The Fed needs to be audited, too. As well as their staff, starting at the very top. It seems in the government, secrecy and corruption is the name of the game. That's unacceptable and needs to end. The US taxpayer should demand full transparency of all organizations including intelligence services, and the agencies in question should have no choice but to fully comply except in genuine, individual cases of legitimate national security, which would be assessed by an independent reviewer.
jaywalk 4y ago
Ah, but the public can't know what they're doing! National security, of course. Just trust them.
yonaguska 4y ago
How do you hold an entity accountable when that entity has the capability to destroy any single individual with no repercussions? Accountability is further complicated by the fact that the entity is political in nature, so the FBI has actual partisan backing through politicians, the court system, and even down to individual jurists. I honestly don't know what the solution is myself.
- ViViDboarder 4y ago
  If you get rid of the above organizations, the local police become the organization with the capability to destroy any single individuals with no repercussions. Though they have few already, the FBI does investigate local law enforcement agencies. The fact that the head of the FBI is an appointee of an elected official, there is some public accountability through voters if there is enough transparency to inform voters of what is going on. I suppose the same is true for most local police though. As it stands, we don’t get much transparency. For a democracy to work properly, the public needs to be informed. The stonewalling by law enforcement at all levels prevents the public from holding them accountable.
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    The public being informed is really the crux of the issue. You cite transparency, which is one aspect- but the other interesting problem is the incestuous relationship that our intel agencies have with the media as well. How much political news coverage was shaped by "anonymous sources" from these intel agencies? I forget who it was- but I remember one retired agent speaking pretty casually about how the FBI leaks information to journalists by sharing information with retired agents that still hold their clearances.

NickC25 4y ago

Good ideas, and ideas that I support 100%, but in practice it seems to be impossible. IIRC we still haven't gotten a full audit of the Pentagon / DOD, and a majority of their operations are probably a bit more public than the NSA's or other secretive-by-design bureaucracy. How would we be able to audit an organization (in a timely manner) that puts up as many roadblocks as possible? The Fed needs to be audited, too. As well as their staff, starting at the very top. It seems in the government, secrecy and corruption is the name of the game. That's unacceptable and needs to end. The US taxpayer should demand full transparency of all organizations including intelligence services, and the agencies in question should have no choice but to fully comply except in genuine, individual cases of legitimate national security, which would be assessed by an independent reviewer.

jaywalk 4y ago

Ah, but the public can't know what they're doing! National security, of course. Just trust them.

yonaguska 4y ago

How do you hold an entity accountable when that entity has the capability to destroy any single individual with no repercussions? Accountability is further complicated by the fact that the entity is political in nature, so the FBI has actual partisan backing through politicians, the court system, and even down to individual jurists. I honestly don't know what the solution is myself.

ViViDboarder 4y ago
If you get rid of the above organizations, the local police become the organization with the capability to destroy any single individuals with no repercussions. Though they have few already, the FBI does investigate local law enforcement agencies. The fact that the head of the FBI is an appointee of an elected official, there is some public accountability through voters if there is enough transparency to inform voters of what is going on. I suppose the same is true for most local police though. As it stands, we don’t get much transparency. For a democracy to work properly, the public needs to be informed. The stonewalling by law enforcement at all levels prevents the public from holding them accountable.
- yonaguska 4y ago
  The public being informed is really the crux of the issue. You cite transparency, which is one aspect- but the other interesting problem is the incestuous relationship that our intel agencies have with the media as well. How much political news coverage was shaped by "anonymous sources" from these intel agencies? I forget who it was- but I remember one retired agent speaking pretty casually about how the FBI leaks information to journalists by sharing information with retired agents that still hold their clearances.