6 ms·

This whole thing screams "What problem does this solve?" It doesn't solve the lack of real face-to-face communication from remote work, I'd argue it's way wors

This whole thing screams "What problem does this solve?" It doesn't solve the lack of real face-to-face communication from remote work, I'd argue it's way worse because now you're face-to-face with a bad simulation of a face. Are displays particularly bad for zoom meetings? Is having something hanging off your face, hurting your neck better? Probably not. Tech has moved way past actually solving problems and this is the best screaming example.

randoglando 4y ago
> It doesn't solve the lack of real face-to-face communication from remote work, I'd argue it's way worse because now you're face-to-face with a bad simulation of a face. For now, it's a bad simulation. But, this needs to be thought of on a 5-10 year scale. Might still be useless, but can't judge it on a 1 year scale.
- muglug 4y ago
  > can’t judge it on a 1 year scale. Facebook wants us to, though. This isn’t a lab demo that they’re showing us — it’s meant to be a product you can use today.
  - randoglando 4y ago
    Good point, that's where I think they are screwing up. Making this their centre of attention.
- Minor49er 4y ago
  Why not? Previous attempts at VR have not kept up their momentum for that long
  - randoglando 4y ago
    This is the most money & investment that has ever been put into VR by a single company by far.
  - Kye 4y ago
    VRChat seems to be holding up well.
- ac29 4y ago
  VR was not invented in 2021. Hell, I remember trying it out in the 90s.
elisbce 4y ago
If one day the next-gen avatars are so realistic, would you say the same? The whole point of VR/AR/MR is to push the boundaries of immersive virtual worlds that eventually reach or even exceed the realism of the physical world. 20 years ago the 3D first-person shooter games were laughable and you can say the same "what's the point of building a 3D first-person game with this janky graphics and slowass computer? We should stick to 2D." Now look at what we have today.
- kortilla 4y ago
  > say the same "what's the point of building a 3D first-person game with this janky graphics and slowass computer? We should stick to 2D." But it was even fun and entertaining then. Quest is not.
  - lukevp 4y ago
    VR is super fun for early adopters, just like early games. A ton more people play games now than they did 20 years ago.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      What Quest is pitching (meetings), is not fun. I’ve tried it. VR games are fun, Quest is not.
- chihuahua 4y ago
  Not to nitpick, but Doom was launched 29 years ago. And it was pretty good, not janky. And by a strange twist of fate, the same John Carmack of Doom fame is working on Quest-related stuff today. I'm inclined to pooh-pooh Meta's VR efforts, but John Carmack is not a fool.
- md5madman 4y ago
  How do you exceed the realism of the physical world? Isn't it perfect realism?
- zkldi 4y ago
Firmwarrior 4y ago
It's not a bad simulation, though. It gives your monkey brain the visceral feeling that you're in the same room with these other people
- yuliyp 4y ago
  The problem isn't that I don't feel like I'm in the same room with the other people, it's that I can't look around the room and understand what the vibe is, or make eye contact with someone else to communicate something.
  - csallen 4y ago
    You can though? At least I've had the experience of making eye contact. As for vibe, the tech is getting better for recognizing facial expressions, so that's just a matter of time. Spatial sound makes "local conversations" possible, where people sitting near each other can talk while other people in the room talk, and you get the effect of a buzz of conversation, which can't happen on Zoom. And ofc avatars face wherever their users would like, so you can tell when everyone is focused on the speaker vs doing their own thing.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
> Are displays particularly bad for zoom meetings? The bandwidth of the conversation is a fraction of that IRL, gestures, mannerisms and directional audio allow multiple levels of communication and meetings are literally over twice as fast as a zoom call where only one person can communicate at once and every interaction has a perceptible delay. Will VR solve this? Remains to be seen, but Zoom calls are bottom of the barrel in terms of communication and I'd literally rather wait a day and have the conversation IRL these days if that's an option.
rbanffy 4y ago
> This whole thing screams "What problem does this solve?" I know! Let's put it on the Blockchain! /me ducks
outworlder 4y ago
> hurting your neck better? Modern headsets are pretty light and the weight is balanced. They aren't going to hurt your neck. This tells me you haven't actually used one. We can complain that they are still bulky, that putting on and removing is not as seamless as it should be, that they can get hot and sweaty, that resolution is still not there, and many other things.
asix66 4y ago
True. This does feel like it's caught somewhere between the future (electric cars) and a solution looking for a problem (self-driving cars). Until an VR/AR/MR solution builds on productivity as a tool I think its market adoption will remain niche. I fear inevitably it will incorporate user addiction and behavior modification to promote data extraction. It’s at that point any usefulness it had as a tool evaporates.
- numbchuckskills 4y ago

randoglando 4y ago

> It doesn't solve the lack of real face-to-face communication from remote work, I'd argue it's way worse because now you're face-to-face with a bad simulation of a face. For now, it's a bad simulation. But, this needs to be thought of on a 5-10 year scale. Might still be useless, but can't judge it on a 1 year scale.

muglug 4y ago
> can’t judge it on a 1 year scale. Facebook wants us to, though. This isn’t a lab demo that they’re showing us — it’s meant to be a product you can use today.
- randoglando 4y ago
  Good point, that's where I think they are screwing up. Making this their centre of attention.
Minor49er 4y ago
Why not? Previous attempts at VR have not kept up their momentum for that long
- randoglando 4y ago
  This is the most money & investment that has ever been put into VR by a single company by far.
- Kye 4y ago
  VRChat seems to be holding up well.
ac29 4y ago
VR was not invented in 2021. Hell, I remember trying it out in the 90s.

elisbce 4y ago

If one day the next-gen avatars are so realistic, would you say the same? The whole point of VR/AR/MR is to push the boundaries of immersive virtual worlds that eventually reach or even exceed the realism of the physical world. 20 years ago the 3D first-person shooter games were laughable and you can say the same "what's the point of building a 3D first-person game with this janky graphics and slowass computer? We should stick to 2D." Now look at what we have today.

kortilla 4y ago
> say the same "what's the point of building a 3D first-person game with this janky graphics and slowass computer? We should stick to 2D." But it was even fun and entertaining then. Quest is not.
- lukevp 4y ago
  VR is super fun for early adopters, just like early games. A ton more people play games now than they did 20 years ago.
  - kortilla 4y ago
    What Quest is pitching (meetings), is not fun. I’ve tried it. VR games are fun, Quest is not.
chihuahua 4y ago
Not to nitpick, but Doom was launched 29 years ago. And it was pretty good, not janky. And by a strange twist of fate, the same John Carmack of Doom fame is working on Quest-related stuff today. I'm inclined to pooh-pooh Meta's VR efforts, but John Carmack is not a fool.
md5madman 4y ago
How do you exceed the realism of the physical world? Isn't it perfect realism?
zkldi 4y ago

Firmwarrior 4y ago

It's not a bad simulation, though. It gives your monkey brain the visceral feeling that you're in the same room with these other people

yuliyp 4y ago
The problem isn't that I don't feel like I'm in the same room with the other people, it's that I can't look around the room and understand what the vibe is, or make eye contact with someone else to communicate something.
- csallen 4y ago
  You can though? At least I've had the experience of making eye contact. As for vibe, the tech is getting better for recognizing facial expressions, so that's just a matter of time. Spatial sound makes "local conversations" possible, where people sitting near each other can talk while other people in the room talk, and you get the effect of a buzz of conversation, which can't happen on Zoom. And ofc avatars face wherever their users would like, so you can tell when everyone is focused on the speaker vs doing their own thing.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

> Are displays particularly bad for zoom meetings? The bandwidth of the conversation is a fraction of that IRL, gestures, mannerisms and directional audio allow multiple levels of communication and meetings are literally over twice as fast as a zoom call where only one person can communicate at once and every interaction has a perceptible delay. Will VR solve this? Remains to be seen, but Zoom calls are bottom of the barrel in terms of communication and I'd literally rather wait a day and have the conversation IRL these days if that's an option.

rbanffy 4y ago

> This whole thing screams "What problem does this solve?" I know! Let's put it on the Blockchain! /me ducks

outworlder 4y ago

> hurting your neck better? Modern headsets are pretty light and the weight is balanced. They aren't going to hurt your neck. This tells me you haven't actually used one. We can complain that they are still bulky, that putting on and removing is not as seamless as it should be, that they can get hot and sweaty, that resolution is still not there, and many other things.

asix66 4y ago

True. This does feel like it's caught somewhere between the future (electric cars) and a solution looking for a problem (self-driving cars). Until an VR/AR/MR solution builds on productivity as a tool I think its market adoption will remain niche. I fear inevitably it will incorporate user addiction and behavior modification to promote data extraction. It’s at that point any usefulness it had as a tool evaporates.

numbchuckskills 4y ago