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Agreed...somewhat. Sometimes there is a hard XY problem, and sometimes not. People who care about interacting with other people like actual people would, and ha

Agreed...somewhat. Sometimes there is a hard XY problem, and sometimes not. People who care about interacting with other people like actual people would, and have the time for it, would say "I think you may have this XY problem for these reasons. But I may not fully understand your situation. Thoughts?" And then be open to the possibility that the asker is allowed to discuss X even if Y would be an OK solution. XY Problem in an Ideal world: Consider that Y, not X, may be the best route. But feel free to respond and discuss how your problem relates to X and Y. XY Problem in actual forums: You're wrong. X is bad, you should do Y. X is forbidden knowledge. You're not even allowed to ask how X compares to Y. Y is axiomatic.

shagie 4y ago
In the ideal world, the XY problem is frequently novel to the group. The "feel free to respond and discuss" is something that has time consuming overhead in asynchronous environments. If one was to ask me an XY problem in person, that's something that can be dealt with in a way that has dense communication. In the forum, the forum has likely been there long before the person posing the question. Often the people in the forum have seen that exact XY problem many times before and it is necessary for the person asking the question to demonstrate additional knowledge to get past the "yes, I know this is an XY problem and these are the constraints I have" to get it to be a novel problem once again. This isn't saying it is ok to be a jerk, but it is important for the person asking the question to be aware of the history of the community and the forum. Often this is best done with lurking for a while before asking questions (this was the norm on Usnet - https://www.24hoursupport.com/netiquette-for-newsgroups/ https://www.24hoursupport.com/netiquette-for-newsgroups/ "Lurking is the practice of reading the postings in a group for a week or so before posting a message yourself. No one will know you are lurking, and you can get a feel for the types of personalities in the group, what types of things are discussed, and what topics or behaviors are frowned upon."). I would contend that in many places today, the "join in and participate now" precludes lurking and so it is much easier to run into the stuff that is common knowledge (not forbidden) to the community that the new person hasn't become acquainted with.
- jrootabega 4y ago
  Unfortunately it often happens that, even when people lurk for a while, and humor the experts and do the work to show why they really want to talk about X and not Y, they are still shut out. Part of this is tribal - you are an outsider by definition, and you challenged the experts and their dogma, you will now be punished for it no matter how valid your position is. And so you move on and do other things, and the culture of grumpy rigid experts perpetuates itself.

shagie 4y ago

In the ideal world, the XY problem is frequently novel to the group. The "feel free to respond and discuss" is something that has time consuming overhead in asynchronous environments. If one was to ask me an XY problem in person, that's something that can be dealt with in a way that has dense communication. In the forum, the forum has likely been there long before the person posing the question. Often the people in the forum have seen that exact XY problem many times before and it is necessary for the person asking the question to demonstrate additional knowledge to get past the "yes, I know this is an XY problem and these are the constraints I have" to get it to be a novel problem once again. This isn't saying it is ok to be a jerk, but it is important for the person asking the question to be aware of the history of the community and the forum. Often this is best done with lurking for a while before asking questions (this was the norm on Usnet - https://www.24hoursupport.com/netiquette-for-newsgroups/ https://www.24hoursupport.com/netiquette-for-newsgroups/ "Lurking is the practice of reading the postings in a group for a week or so before posting a message yourself. No one will know you are lurking, and you can get a feel for the types of personalities in the group, what types of things are discussed, and what topics or behaviors are frowned upon."). I would contend that in many places today, the "join in and participate now" precludes lurking and so it is much easier to run into the stuff that is common knowledge (not forbidden) to the community that the new person hasn't become acquainted with.

jrootabega 4y ago
Unfortunately it often happens that, even when people lurk for a while, and humor the experts and do the work to show why they really want to talk about X and not Y, they are still shut out. Part of this is tribal - you are an outsider by definition, and you challenged the experts and their dogma, you will now be punished for it no matter how valid your position is. And so you move on and do other things, and the culture of grumpy rigid experts perpetuates itself.