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There is a bit of a balancing act going on. If bottles moved to glass, that would increase weight and CO2. If they moved to more cans, that’s still plastic due

There is a bit of a balancing act going on. If bottles moved to glass, that would increase weight and CO2. If they moved to more cans, that’s still plastic due to the liners.

joekrill 4y ago
You might have a point with glass - but the can argument is a bit of a straw man. Even coated aluminum cans are significantly better than plastic bottles. They are very easily recycled.
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
This is not about GHG emissions, this is about disposing of non-degradable plastic. But to follow your reasoning, do you have any data on the CO2 emissions of extracting, transporting and transforming crude oil into PET bottles, versus some 30% added weight to a delivery truck?
- randunel 4y ago
  I'm not sure lorries would get 30% heavier, they're already trying to maximise every load. You would, instead, get x% more traffic.
  - carlmr 4y ago
    Are they maximizing the load by space or weight? Or do they actively try to get an optimized mix of both? I would imagine glass bottles also take more space though, so still I guess there might be more traffic.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      At least the local delivery trucks are often quite empty - easier to have a big truck and not need it than a small one that runs out of room.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The vast majority of trucks don’t load full. Especially the local delivery trucks. And even those loaded by volume could probably go to glass without hitting weight limits. And if the result is more local bottling plants, that’s even better.
mrpopo 4y ago
If bottles moved to glass, many companies will quickly switch to returnable bottles, which will increase incentives to use standard bottle sizes, which in turn may reduce the distance that bottles travel, etc. It's also likely that prices will increase and therefore consumption will decrease (contributing to solving the obesity crisis in the process). You can't predict things in a vacuum. Also, how much would that increase CO2 emissions in the worst case? Plastic pollution and climate change are separate problems. If we are solving plastic pollution effectively, wouldn't it be worth a hypothetical .5% increase in global CO2 ?
- carlmr 4y ago
  We already have somewhat standardized glass bottles for easier local returns in Germany. I think it's a good system to avoid plastic trash.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Beer is almost universally glass in the US and we don’t reuse. I’d like to see standard glass bottles that are universally reusable and washable, but there are claims it’s more energy to wash than to make new (which I suspect is funny accounting).
  - tristan957 4y ago
    No brewery that I go to uses bottles for distribution. If you are talking about major beer brands, I would like to see some stats.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      https://www.beerinstitute.org/trends-beer-packaging/ https://www.beerinstitute.org/trends-beer-packaging/ > Glass bottles compose nearly one-third of all beer volume in the United States and nearly two-thirds of above premium segment volume. I think the "premium" is what I'm noticing; I kind of ignore all the large packs of aluminum beer cans (though to be honest that's the only beer I have on hand right now). What I have very rarely seen is plastic beer - only at stadiums where they don't want you throwing the bottle at the players, basically. Of course, the only proper beer container is a giant keg.
stdbrouw 4y ago
Nitpick: aluminium cans do not have a liner on the inside (unlike the laminates used for e.g. potato chips) and big brands usually print their branding straight onto the aluminium, it's only smaller brands that use plastic shrink sleeve labels.

There is a bit of a balancing act going on. If bottles moved to glass, that would increase weight and CO2. If they moved to more cans, that’s still plastic due to the liners.

joekrill 4y ago

You might have a point with glass - but the can argument is a bit of a straw man. Even coated aluminum cans are significantly better than plastic bottles. They are very easily recycled.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

This is not about GHG emissions, this is about disposing of non-degradable plastic. But to follow your reasoning, do you have any data on the CO2 emissions of extracting, transporting and transforming crude oil into PET bottles, versus some 30% added weight to a delivery truck?

randunel 4y ago
I'm not sure lorries would get 30% heavier, they're already trying to maximise every load. You would, instead, get x% more traffic.
- carlmr 4y ago
  Are they maximizing the load by space or weight? Or do they actively try to get an optimized mix of both? I would imagine glass bottles also take more space though, so still I guess there might be more traffic.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    At least the local delivery trucks are often quite empty - easier to have a big truck and not need it than a small one that runs out of room.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The vast majority of trucks don’t load full. Especially the local delivery trucks. And even those loaded by volume could probably go to glass without hitting weight limits. And if the result is more local bottling plants, that’s even better.

mrpopo 4y ago

If bottles moved to glass, many companies will quickly switch to returnable bottles, which will increase incentives to use standard bottle sizes, which in turn may reduce the distance that bottles travel, etc. It's also likely that prices will increase and therefore consumption will decrease (contributing to solving the obesity crisis in the process). You can't predict things in a vacuum. Also, how much would that increase CO2 emissions in the worst case? Plastic pollution and climate change are separate problems. If we are solving plastic pollution effectively, wouldn't it be worth a hypothetical .5% increase in global CO2 ?

carlmr 4y ago
We already have somewhat standardized glass bottles for easier local returns in Germany. I think it's a good system to avoid plastic trash.
bombcar 4y ago
Beer is almost universally glass in the US and we don’t reuse. I’d like to see standard glass bottles that are universally reusable and washable, but there are claims it’s more energy to wash than to make new (which I suspect is funny accounting).
- tristan957 4y ago
  No brewery that I go to uses bottles for distribution. If you are talking about major beer brands, I would like to see some stats.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    https://www.beerinstitute.org/trends-beer-packaging/ https://www.beerinstitute.org/trends-beer-packaging/ > Glass bottles compose nearly one-third of all beer volume in the United States and nearly two-thirds of above premium segment volume. I think the "premium" is what I'm noticing; I kind of ignore all the large packs of aluminum beer cans (though to be honest that's the only beer I have on hand right now). What I have very rarely seen is plastic beer - only at stadiums where they don't want you throwing the bottle at the players, basically. Of course, the only proper beer container is a giant keg.

stdbrouw 4y ago

Nitpick: aluminium cans do not have a liner on the inside (unlike the laminates used for e.g. potato chips) and big brands usually print their branding straight onto the aluminium, it's only smaller brands that use plastic shrink sleeve labels.