4 ms·

Shanghai Quietly Shuts Down Schools, Bars, Gyms as Covid Returns

20 points by CompactNotice 4y ago

sn0w_crash 4y ago
Has anyone here played Stray? It’s a wonderful game that came out this year about a city that’s on permanent lockdown. All the humans are gone, but the AI and drones just continue to keep the city “safe” from a virus that has long since vanished. Also you play as a cat.
- jstarfish 4y ago
  > AI and drones just continue to keep the city “safe” from a virus that has long since vanished > All the humans are gone I think I see the problem :)
olouv 4y ago
Can’t help myself from thinking that this insane zero-covid policy is more about the party conditioning its population for a coming war than fighting a virus.
- ttfkam 4y ago
  Shanghai is like the Florida of China. Most of the rest of China had fully opened up long ago without any restrictions due to a zero Covid policy that worked. Shanghai always cut corners and kept getting hit with new outbreaks the rest of the country wasn't seeing. I'm not defending Xi's government, but preventing spread and acknowledging modern germ theory in public policy actually works.
  - CompactNotice 4y ago
    acknowledging modern germ theory in public policy Are you equating this with the public policy choice to impose lockdowns?
    - ttfkam 4y ago
      Yes. I am fully aware only an authoritarian government would be willing and able to forcibly lock down entire cities. BUT It stopped the spread in its tracks unlike the US and Europe who kept spreading for a year and a half. After a few months, most of China went back to normal. Wuhan itself is maskless with hospitals working under a normal load. The lockdowns worked. Lockdowns and cat act tracing works, but only if everyone participates. Unfortunately it got political instead of following the science. Many preferred to let their fellow citizens die rather than wear a mask and stay at home when possible. Authoritarianism is a horrible thing, but it has it uses during a viral pandemic.
      - CompactNotice 4y ago
        Authoritarianism can always solve some problems -- always just for "the duration of the emergency" of course (now running well over 2 years in China). "The science" has absolutely nothing to do with the policy tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not lockdowns are advisable. You're simply begging the question that reducing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 should be the only consideration on the table.
        ttfkam 4y ago
        Are you suggesting that Chinese cities have been under continuous lockdown for the last two years? Because that's not the case. Wuhan for example began its lockdown in Feb 2020 and ended it Apr 2020. There was a brief, limited lockdown in July of this year, but that's it. Folks in China were able to freely mingle, eat out, etc. long before the West did. Reducing transmission is certainly not the only consideration, but the economy and public life are better by actually dealing with a deadly virus quickly than pretending it will just magically go away and dragging out its effects for two years (and counting).
        CompactNotice 4y ago
        But no one is "pretending it will just magically go away." You're contending with an obvious strawman here. They're simply judging that we do not need ongoing threats of lockdowns to control a virus with an IFR about 1.5x that of influenza, any more than we ever needed them for the flu.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    So my understanding of the Chinese population is that the older citizens are heavily resistant to vaccination, and at the same time, China has a rapidly aging population with very weak social safety nets. To me, it’s strange they wouldn’t just “open back up” and let whatever happens happens; that’d be a very authoritarian thing to do. With that, what is the goal of these lockdowns if it’s nuking productivity? If it’s holding down the death rate, that’s reasonable, I just can’t find any evidence to that thesis.
    - feet 4y ago
      >just “open back up” and let whatever happens happens; that’d be a very authoritarian thing to do Isn't this exactly what numerous US conservatives were advocating for?
- jasec57322 4y ago
  It's obviously not a 'zero covid' policy. Bloomberg here licking the CCP's Boots: "Shanghai Quietly Shuts Down Schools, Gyms, Bars as Covid Returns". More accurately: "CCP imposes lockdown upon serf population in Shanghai".
stjohnswarts 4y ago
Uggg! When will China get on board with vaccinations? What good is a repressive authoritarian regime if you can't even use it for public health?
uni_rule 4y ago
A lot of people got really comfortable with things being "finally over" this summer. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it spiked again around Thanksgiving / the holidays as it has the past 2 years and once again catches lot of people off guard. Perhaps they're just ahead of the curve back there.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  BA.5 bivariant boosters are available. I took mine a month ago. These boosters are for the original strain (the one from November 2019), as well as BA.5, the one responsible for the June/July spike here in the USA. So we should, theoretically at least, have broad exposure and protection from whatever hits us in December/January. Its hard to keep up with mutations, but I'm willing to bet that those vaccinated vs two different strains will have a better immune system compared to those who only have immunity to one strain. All three major strains for 2022 were Omicron, Omicron BA.4, and Omicron BA.5. So the virus seems to have "settled down" upon the Omicron branch of its evolution, suggesting that the next strain will be another variant of Omicron.
- unknownaccount 4y ago
  Would it be okay to keep wearing the mask in public for the next couple years - forever?

20 points by CompactNotice 4y ago

Has anyone here played Stray? It’s a wonderful game that came out this year about a city that’s on permanent lockdown. All the humans are gone, but the AI and drones just continue to keep the city “safe” from a virus that has long since vanished. Also you play as a cat.

jstarfish 4y ago
> AI and drones just continue to keep the city “safe” from a virus that has long since vanished > All the humans are gone I think I see the problem :)

olouv 4y ago

Can’t help myself from thinking that this insane zero-covid policy is more about the party conditioning its population for a coming war than fighting a virus.

ttfkam 4y ago
Shanghai is like the Florida of China. Most of the rest of China had fully opened up long ago without any restrictions due to a zero Covid policy that worked. Shanghai always cut corners and kept getting hit with new outbreaks the rest of the country wasn't seeing. I'm not defending Xi's government, but preventing spread and acknowledging modern germ theory in public policy actually works.
- CompactNotice 4y ago
  acknowledging modern germ theory in public policy Are you equating this with the public policy choice to impose lockdowns?
  - ttfkam 4y ago
    Yes. I am fully aware only an authoritarian government would be willing and able to forcibly lock down entire cities. BUT It stopped the spread in its tracks unlike the US and Europe who kept spreading for a year and a half. After a few months, most of China went back to normal. Wuhan itself is maskless with hospitals working under a normal load. The lockdowns worked. Lockdowns and cat act tracing works, but only if everyone participates. Unfortunately it got political instead of following the science. Many preferred to let their fellow citizens die rather than wear a mask and stay at home when possible. Authoritarianism is a horrible thing, but it has it uses during a viral pandemic.
    - CompactNotice 4y ago
      Authoritarianism can always solve some problems -- always just for "the duration of the emergency" of course (now running well over 2 years in China). "The science" has absolutely nothing to do with the policy tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not lockdowns are advisable. You're simply begging the question that reducing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 should be the only consideration on the table.
      - ttfkam 4y ago
        Are you suggesting that Chinese cities have been under continuous lockdown for the last two years? Because that's not the case. Wuhan for example began its lockdown in Feb 2020 and ended it Apr 2020. There was a brief, limited lockdown in July of this year, but that's it. Folks in China were able to freely mingle, eat out, etc. long before the West did. Reducing transmission is certainly not the only consideration, but the economy and public life are better by actually dealing with a deadly virus quickly than pretending it will just magically go away and dragging out its effects for two years (and counting).
        CompactNotice 4y ago
        But no one is "pretending it will just magically go away." You're contending with an obvious strawman here. They're simply judging that we do not need ongoing threats of lockdowns to control a virus with an IFR about 1.5x that of influenza, any more than we ever needed them for the flu.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  So my understanding of the Chinese population is that the older citizens are heavily resistant to vaccination, and at the same time, China has a rapidly aging population with very weak social safety nets. To me, it’s strange they wouldn’t just “open back up” and let whatever happens happens; that’d be a very authoritarian thing to do. With that, what is the goal of these lockdowns if it’s nuking productivity? If it’s holding down the death rate, that’s reasonable, I just can’t find any evidence to that thesis.
  - feet 4y ago
    >just “open back up” and let whatever happens happens; that’d be a very authoritarian thing to do Isn't this exactly what numerous US conservatives were advocating for?
jasec57322 4y ago
It's obviously not a 'zero covid' policy. Bloomberg here licking the CCP's Boots: "Shanghai Quietly Shuts Down Schools, Gyms, Bars as Covid Returns". More accurately: "CCP imposes lockdown upon serf population in Shanghai".

stjohnswarts 4y ago

Uggg! When will China get on board with vaccinations? What good is a repressive authoritarian regime if you can't even use it for public health?

uni_rule 4y ago

A lot of people got really comfortable with things being "finally over" this summer. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it spiked again around Thanksgiving / the holidays as it has the past 2 years and once again catches lot of people off guard. Perhaps they're just ahead of the curve back there.

dragontamer 4y ago
BA.5 bivariant boosters are available. I took mine a month ago. These boosters are for the original strain (the one from November 2019), as well as BA.5, the one responsible for the June/July spike here in the USA. So we should, theoretically at least, have broad exposure and protection from whatever hits us in December/January. Its hard to keep up with mutations, but I'm willing to bet that those vaccinated vs two different strains will have a better immune system compared to those who only have immunity to one strain. All three major strains for 2022 were Omicron, Omicron BA.4, and Omicron BA.5. So the virus seems to have "settled down" upon the Omicron branch of its evolution, suggesting that the next strain will be another variant of Omicron.
unknownaccount 4y ago
Would it be okay to keep wearing the mask in public for the next couple years - forever?