3 ms·

I guess it depends on whether you think the respect is owed to the descendants or to the dead.

by cm2187 4y ago

Y-bar 4y ago
Why you you think it is an either-or situation? Can't we consider respect towards both?
- cm2187 4y ago
  If respect is owed to the dead then archeologists shouldn’t violate their grave. And where is the limitation? Would that apply to prehistoric burials?
  - Y-bar 4y ago
    Are you attempting to ask honest question here or are just taking a contrarian position against a view I do not hold? Are you unaware that it is fully possible to study a subject while also respecting it? It also seems to me that the questions you are asking are very black-and-white such as "And where is the limitation?" on an issue where there are many nuances.
    - cm2187 4y ago
      Despite how little we know of ancient rites, I am fairly confident that being exposed in a museum or transferred to the storage room of a warehouse is far from the respect expected by the deceased when the burial was arranged, no matter how much care you take. It’s a kind of value debate that has no definitive answer anyway. I am personally on the side that once dead, the corpse is just a stack of decaying meat which doesn’t command respect in itself. So it’s really a function of respect to the livings to whom the deceased meant something. And this wanes fairly quickly. Perhaps a century or two for a random quidam. Perhaps a few centuries for someone illustrious. But I am not religious either.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    You can respect the dead even while inspecting their graves and grave goods if your motives are for enlightenment rather than avarice.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I mean in the west / europe, clearing old graveyards is pretty common after a while. I looked up the legislation, basically when you buy a grave plot, you pay for the rights for a minimum of 10 years. That is separated between above and underground rights; if the above ground rights have passed, the grave stone and other above ground items are removed; if the underground rights have passed and the site has been resold, any leftover remains (bone fragments at that point) will either be excavated and put into a mass grave, or buried a bit deeper 'below' the new grave. But a more accurate comparison would be the elite, they get interred in family crypts or under church halls for hundreds of years (or indefinitely, maybe if there's a major religious or political revolution will they get removed, destroyed, or forgotten). The modern-day cathedrals and mausoleums may end up being the pyramids of future generations. like, 4-5000 year future generations. I'm sure they'll survive the nuclear apocalypse.
- cm2187 4y ago
  I think the way it works in france is that when you buy a graveyard plot, you buy it forever, as long as someone maintains it. If the plot isn't maintained, after a while it is deemed abandoned and reclaimed. The one that looks like it has been designed to resist nuclear apocalypse is Lenin's mausoleum. I know I'll be dead anyway, but still, the thought that all that will be left of our civilisation is the remains of that "great ruler"...

I guess it depends on whether you think the respect is owed to the descendants or to the dead.

by cm2187 4y ago

I guess it depends on whether you think the respect is owed to the descendants or to the dead.

Y-bar 4y ago

Why you you think it is an either-or situation? Can't we consider respect towards both?

cm2187 4y ago
If respect is owed to the dead then archeologists shouldn’t violate their grave. And where is the limitation? Would that apply to prehistoric burials?
- Y-bar 4y ago
  Are you attempting to ask honest question here or are just taking a contrarian position against a view I do not hold? Are you unaware that it is fully possible to study a subject while also respecting it? It also seems to me that the questions you are asking are very black-and-white such as "And where is the limitation?" on an issue where there are many nuances.
  - cm2187 4y ago
    Despite how little we know of ancient rites, I am fairly confident that being exposed in a museum or transferred to the storage room of a warehouse is far from the respect expected by the deceased when the burial was arranged, no matter how much care you take. It’s a kind of value debate that has no definitive answer anyway. I am personally on the side that once dead, the corpse is just a stack of decaying meat which doesn’t command respect in itself. So it’s really a function of respect to the livings to whom the deceased meant something. And this wanes fairly quickly. Perhaps a century or two for a random quidam. Perhaps a few centuries for someone illustrious. But I am not religious either.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  You can respect the dead even while inspecting their graves and grave goods if your motives are for enlightenment rather than avarice.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

I mean in the west / europe, clearing old graveyards is pretty common after a while. I looked up the legislation, basically when you buy a grave plot, you pay for the rights for a minimum of 10 years. That is separated between above and underground rights; if the above ground rights have passed, the grave stone and other above ground items are removed; if the underground rights have passed and the site has been resold, any leftover remains (bone fragments at that point) will either be excavated and put into a mass grave, or buried a bit deeper 'below' the new grave. But a more accurate comparison would be the elite, they get interred in family crypts or under church halls for hundreds of years (or indefinitely, maybe if there's a major religious or political revolution will they get removed, destroyed, or forgotten). The modern-day cathedrals and mausoleums may end up being the pyramids of future generations. like, 4-5000 year future generations. I'm sure they'll survive the nuclear apocalypse.

cm2187 4y ago
I think the way it works in france is that when you buy a graveyard plot, you buy it forever, as long as someone maintains it. If the plot isn't maintained, after a while it is deemed abandoned and reclaimed. The one that looks like it has been designed to resist nuclear apocalypse is Lenin's mausoleum. I know I'll be dead anyway, but still, the thought that all that will be left of our civilisation is the remains of that "great ruler"...