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I think there’s a lot of hate because Facebook is an immensely hate-able company that needs its next cash cow and it sure hopes this is it. Look at the history

I think there’s a lot of hate because Facebook is an immensely hate-able company that needs its next cash cow and it sure hopes this is it. Look at the history of it’s core product to see where VR will go if it takes off: Facebook was the cool place for college students to connect with friends. No ID requirements to sign up and no ads for years. Your feed was just your friends post. Things were great. Now there’s ads in your feed and you need to definitively prove your identity. Not to mention the history of scandals and privacy violations. They’ll do whatever it takes to get those first 100 million users. Once they get them though all bets are off. Privacy will only get worse, they’ll give up on the initial power users because who cares about a couple million hard core gamers?

systemvoltage 4y ago
I never understood the hate for Facebook. Everytime someone points out their reasons, usually it has major flaws in 1) Inconsistency 2) Hypocrisy 3) Ideological bias 4) Bandwagoning. So if someone wants to hate Facebook, if they have principled position, I respect that. But that's hardly ever the case in my experience online and offline. I am not a fan of most social media companies, but I love the tech scene, and the progress Meta is making in this field. Should be universally applauded even by the harshest critics of Facebook.
- jiscariot 4y ago
  The NYT writing FB hit pieces every week for the last three years, hasn't helped that perception.
- marricks 4y ago
  I don’t think “progressing in a field” is worthy of applause if you’re just going to use that progress to hurt people. Technology doesn’t just magically make peoples lives better, sorry but the cats out of the bag on that one.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    Not defending Facebook, but that is essentially what capitalism is, and virtually all "successful" companies follow the same path. I get how someone who doesn't question it or doesn't object to it could be confused by the hate for facebook.
- cowtools 4y ago
  What field? the field of time-wasting technology?
  - blobbers 4y ago
    They’re trying to make us more connected to each other… by getting rid of reality :-/
  - yreg 4y ago
    Entertainment is not time wasting and VR is not just for entertainment.
- echevil 4y ago
  As far as I can remember it all started since Trump got elected. Before then the tone on Facebook was much more positive than it is now
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    The word "dystopia" (according to Google Trends at least) had a large spike worldwide in November 2016 and has been consistently trending higher than pre-November 2016 ever since. Trump (or probably just general events around then) did something to the Anglosphere net that definitely made it more negative and cynical. EDIT: same pattern with "dystopian"
  - rob74 4y ago
    Also, Brexit.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Well maybe you never had the need for privacy. Fine with you, not fine by most people. Or you are oblivious how previously quite good tool for integration with remote friends and family got progressively worse to the point where its utter ad-infested and bug-infested piece of crap (to be fair FB was having tons of bugs since beginning, they just didn't improve on that front, I can easily hit 3-5 of them within a minute of casual use - latest firefox with ublock origin). No company sliding down so much has received much love. Not sure what is there to not understand. Oh yes and owner is clearly an amoral person with strong sociopathic traits hellbent on making humanity worse off long term, not unique but the same applies and compounds. No amount of self-serving VR progression or some open source libs can anyhow annulate that. Morals is something a lot of people value, and lack of it gets appropriate reactions.
- ux-app 4y ago
imposter 4y ago
Isn't everyone doing that though? With Apple stepping into the Ads business, it is almost clear that they will eventually wipe out any third party competition, especially facebook from their platform. Facebook has realised that it desperately needs a hardware channel to survive in the cut-throat competitive field the tech industry has become, and VR is that channel.
- marricks 4y ago
  Yep, our current system sucks. I happen to think Facebook is much, much, worse than Apple but who knows in 5 or 10 years. Apple is building its own VR headset and making money off VR hardware seems like a stretch.
  - elevaet 4y ago
    That doesn't seem a huge stretch to me. Apple has always tried to be on the leading edge in novel human-computer interaction hardware: the mouse, the touch screen, the pocket computer, the wrist computer...
    - automatic6131 4y ago
      The wrist computer is useless though
      - bjconlan 4y ago
        Their current version/vision perhaps is yes. But they're still the market leaders (Although Apples problem with innovation procrastination when market leaders is frustrating). I guess we have to wait for competition here before we see things move faster(particularly better human interfacing etc). All in all they shoot to the expectations of their users. (And the competition simply plays catch up) Im waiting for the "total recall" (the new one) style hand/pane/internal projections but that might skip watches and go straight to a neuralink thing.
        4y ago
jstummbillig 4y ago
They did absolutely monstrous shit in regards to privacy, that makes the meta of today look like a finely tuned privacy machine that serves to protect every user to the teeth. Only nobody cared because that was the time prior to the latest privacy awakening, and apparently we still have a hard time putting it in the right context. If the best thing you can say about a company is that it was not big and nobody cared about their (what are now considered) atrocities back when, then you should probably reconsider your evaluation.
- __alexs 4y ago
  GP is kind of downplaying the real horror of Facebook which is that they (allegedly) enabled genocide.
  - leaflets2 4y ago
    And not many seem to care or remember. Was so far away, to another group of people, won't happen here, what does it matter Except that to some extent, similar things are happening here -- Putin was, from what I've read, using FB to do psyops, to prepare his 2014 takeover of parts of Ukraine: making up and spreading stories about Russians getting abducted etc, ... Which helped him with the 2014 annexations, and leading up to his invasion and war today. More people dead than in Myanmar. A bit surprising that the current US gov doesn't seem to look at FB as a psyops threat against itself?
- codemusings 4y ago
  > They did absolutely monstrous shit in regards to privacy, that makes the meta of today look like a finely tuned privacy machine that serves to protect every user to the teeth. How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Any Meta app you have on your smartphone is doing what they can to collect heuristics in order to identify you and serve you Ads. How is that any different? It's just not as obvious. > Only nobody cared because that was the time prior to the latest privacy awakening [...] You make it sound like it's a fad or the user simply didn't care in the 2000s. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If a private company would park a van in front of your door to observe you 24/7 in order to sell mundane details about your daily life to advertisers you'd be up in arms. Yet in the digital space it's no big deal.
noduerme 4y ago
After wanting a metaverse since 1992, if anyone could make me not want one it's Zuck.
krick 4y ago
True, and it isn't just hate for the sake of hate. I would like to have a device like that (not for meetings, god forbid, but I'd like to read without having to hold a book in by hands, or to watch a 360° 3D movie, you know), but I'm just not gonna buy it from Facebook. To clarify, I'm not gonna buy it from any company that will require me to sign-up and log-in somewhere to use the device I bought.
- techguy24 4y ago
  "To clarify, I'm not gonna buy it from any company that will require me to sign-up and log-in somewhere to use the device I bought." Dont both Android and iOS devices do this?
rib3ye 4y ago
Maybe they didn’t require ID, but for the first year(s) they did require a valid college, and then business domain in your email at sign up so it was really anon as you’re making it out to be.
- dgfitz 4y ago
  I’m glad you pointed this out, it seems to have been a lost fact. When I got my fb account it was when fb was still adding schools a chunk at a time, mine happened to be one of them. My friends who went to schools not yet “in” or didn’t go to school at all we’re quite jealous. This span of time lasted less than a year but part of the initial draw of fb was the exclusive nature of it.

systemvoltage 4y ago

I never understood the hate for Facebook. Everytime someone points out their reasons, usually it has major flaws in 1) Inconsistency 2) Hypocrisy 3) Ideological bias 4) Bandwagoning. So if someone wants to hate Facebook, if they have principled position, I respect that. But that's hardly ever the case in my experience online and offline. I am not a fan of most social media companies, but I love the tech scene, and the progress Meta is making in this field. Should be universally applauded even by the harshest critics of Facebook.

jiscariot 4y ago
The NYT writing FB hit pieces every week for the last three years, hasn't helped that perception.
marricks 4y ago
I don’t think “progressing in a field” is worthy of applause if you’re just going to use that progress to hurt people. Technology doesn’t just magically make peoples lives better, sorry but the cats out of the bag on that one.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Not defending Facebook, but that is essentially what capitalism is, and virtually all "successful" companies follow the same path. I get how someone who doesn't question it or doesn't object to it could be confused by the hate for facebook.
cowtools 4y ago
What field? the field of time-wasting technology?
- blobbers 4y ago
  They’re trying to make us more connected to each other… by getting rid of reality :-/
- yreg 4y ago
  Entertainment is not time wasting and VR is not just for entertainment.
echevil 4y ago
As far as I can remember it all started since Trump got elected. Before then the tone on Facebook was much more positive than it is now
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  The word "dystopia" (according to Google Trends at least) had a large spike worldwide in November 2016 and has been consistently trending higher than pre-November 2016 ever since. Trump (or probably just general events around then) did something to the Anglosphere net that definitely made it more negative and cynical. EDIT: same pattern with "dystopian"
- rob74 4y ago
  Also, Brexit.
saiya-jin 4y ago
Well maybe you never had the need for privacy. Fine with you, not fine by most people. Or you are oblivious how previously quite good tool for integration with remote friends and family got progressively worse to the point where its utter ad-infested and bug-infested piece of crap (to be fair FB was having tons of bugs since beginning, they just didn't improve on that front, I can easily hit 3-5 of them within a minute of casual use - latest firefox with ublock origin). No company sliding down so much has received much love. Not sure what is there to not understand. Oh yes and owner is clearly an amoral person with strong sociopathic traits hellbent on making humanity worse off long term, not unique but the same applies and compounds. No amount of self-serving VR progression or some open source libs can anyhow annulate that. Morals is something a lot of people value, and lack of it gets appropriate reactions.
ux-app 4y ago

imposter 4y ago

Isn't everyone doing that though? With Apple stepping into the Ads business, it is almost clear that they will eventually wipe out any third party competition, especially facebook from their platform. Facebook has realised that it desperately needs a hardware channel to survive in the cut-throat competitive field the tech industry has become, and VR is that channel.

marricks 4y ago
Yep, our current system sucks. I happen to think Facebook is much, much, worse than Apple but who knows in 5 or 10 years. Apple is building its own VR headset and making money off VR hardware seems like a stretch.
- elevaet 4y ago
  That doesn't seem a huge stretch to me. Apple has always tried to be on the leading edge in novel human-computer interaction hardware: the mouse, the touch screen, the pocket computer, the wrist computer...
  - automatic6131 4y ago
    The wrist computer is useless though
    - bjconlan 4y ago
      Their current version/vision perhaps is yes. But they're still the market leaders (Although Apples problem with innovation procrastination when market leaders is frustrating). I guess we have to wait for competition here before we see things move faster(particularly better human interfacing etc). All in all they shoot to the expectations of their users. (And the competition simply plays catch up) Im waiting for the "total recall" (the new one) style hand/pane/internal projections but that might skip watches and go straight to a neuralink thing.
      - 4y ago

jstummbillig 4y ago

They did absolutely monstrous shit in regards to privacy, that makes the meta of today look like a finely tuned privacy machine that serves to protect every user to the teeth. Only nobody cared because that was the time prior to the latest privacy awakening, and apparently we still have a hard time putting it in the right context. If the best thing you can say about a company is that it was not big and nobody cared about their (what are now considered) atrocities back when, then you should probably reconsider your evaluation.

__alexs 4y ago
GP is kind of downplaying the real horror of Facebook which is that they (allegedly) enabled genocide.
- leaflets2 4y ago
  And not many seem to care or remember. Was so far away, to another group of people, won't happen here, what does it matter Except that to some extent, similar things are happening here -- Putin was, from what I've read, using FB to do psyops, to prepare his 2014 takeover of parts of Ukraine: making up and spreading stories about Russians getting abducted etc, ... Which helped him with the 2014 annexations, and leading up to his invasion and war today. More people dead than in Myanmar. A bit surprising that the current US gov doesn't seem to look at FB as a psyops threat against itself?
codemusings 4y ago
> They did absolutely monstrous shit in regards to privacy, that makes the meta of today look like a finely tuned privacy machine that serves to protect every user to the teeth. How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Any Meta app you have on your smartphone is doing what they can to collect heuristics in order to identify you and serve you Ads. How is that any different? It's just not as obvious. > Only nobody cared because that was the time prior to the latest privacy awakening [...] You make it sound like it's a fad or the user simply didn't care in the 2000s. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If a private company would park a van in front of your door to observe you 24/7 in order to sell mundane details about your daily life to advertisers you'd be up in arms. Yet in the digital space it's no big deal.

noduerme 4y ago

After wanting a metaverse since 1992, if anyone could make me not want one it's Zuck.

krick 4y ago

True, and it isn't just hate for the sake of hate. I would like to have a device like that (not for meetings, god forbid, but I'd like to read without having to hold a book in by hands, or to watch a 360° 3D movie, you know), but I'm just not gonna buy it from Facebook. To clarify, I'm not gonna buy it from any company that will require me to sign-up and log-in somewhere to use the device I bought.

techguy24 4y ago
"To clarify, I'm not gonna buy it from any company that will require me to sign-up and log-in somewhere to use the device I bought." Dont both Android and iOS devices do this?

rib3ye 4y ago

Maybe they didn’t require ID, but for the first year(s) they did require a valid college, and then business domain in your email at sign up so it was really anon as you’re making it out to be.

dgfitz 4y ago
I’m glad you pointed this out, it seems to have been a lost fact. When I got my fb account it was when fb was still adding schools a chunk at a time, mine happened to be one of them. My friends who went to schools not yet “in” or didn’t go to school at all we’re quite jealous. This span of time lasted less than a year but part of the initial draw of fb was the exclusive nature of it.