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> I don't care about many apps. I need maps ... As someone with a hobby project in this area I can confidently say that's not simple. Either you implement a n

> I don't care about many apps. I need maps ... As someone with a hobby project in this area I can confidently say that's not simple. Either you implement a new simple map app (very hard), or you add a comparability layer to run an existing map app (never done it, assume very hard and also not minimalist). Edit: Here's an example of an impressive 10k LOC attempt at a new map renderer. Look at what it supports so far. (This map is representative, the renderer just doesn't support things like text yet) https://webgl.demo.maplibre-rs.maplibre.org/ https://webgl.demo.maplibre-rs.maplibre.org/

puzzlingcaptcha 4y ago
There is a map app for KaiOS that essentially just wraps openstreetmap https://github.com/strukturart/o.map https://github.com/strukturart/o.map
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  Thanks! I forgot that on KaiOS you can just use web libraries. That's using leaflet.js, a excellent older library that's perfectly fine for most use cases.
usrusr 4y ago
Wouldn't web actually be a good example for browsers to leave the native behind? A lot of native map use has never moved beyond the generation of mapsforge (vectors rendered in the fly into bitmap tiles that are then used as bitmaps), because apparently that's good enough. In the browser, there's everything that evolved around MBTiles and the only thing missing would be some offline repository API filling the gap between a system map and isolated PWA containers.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  I don't think you're right about the evolution of map rendering approaches. Isn't the vast majority of native map use Mapbox GL? You're right that linking to a vector renderer isn't too much work. I was commenting on the simplicity of writing a map app from scratch.
  - usrusr 4y ago
    Sure, there's a lot of mapbox on the native side as well, but that is far more restricted to high profile customers (e.g. the Strava app) than in the browser. At least from my superficial impression, libre forks of mapbox legacy code seem to be far more alive in the subset related to the web than in the subset related to native. One cause I think is the lure of offline capability: when I'm in the browser I don't mind loading on demand, but as soon as native enters the picture I'll want at least an escape hatch to downloadable maps. And then the Pandora's box of provisioning, backwards and forwards compatibility is wide open and you happily stick to mapsforge or whatever it is you already have. (ps: and my post above was supposed to start "Wouldn't maps actually" instead of "Wouldn't web actually", but you seem to have read intention instead of words just fine)
    - iudqnolq 4y ago
      > least from my superficial impression, libre forks of mapbox legacy code seem to be far more alive in the subset related to the web than in the subset related to native. Just based on my superficial impression I think normal apps on the play store pay mapbox if they don't have a big budget and consider maplibre (the fork of mapbox's most recent approach) if they're big enough. My surface impression is maplibre is used by companies like Facebook who can afford to hire low level graphics devs and fork mapbox's work rather than pay the new license. For every feature, including offline, I think paying mapbox is the cheapest option with decent quality up to that scale. Of course, there are projects like mine that aren't motivated by profit. (I'm using mapnik, an independent oss project that got significant mapbox investment years back but which they now consider legacy).
isolli 4y ago
The e-ink Light Phone has directions and a map [0]. I wonder how they do it. [0] https://support.thelightphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402123489300-Directions-Tool https://support.thelightphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/44021234...
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  Based on a cursory look that seems closed & proprietary, so I'm not sure. Their privacy policy reveals online directions are sent off to a mapbox competitor > We've built the Directions tool, like all of our tools, with privacy as a priority. Light does not have access to any location info or logs of your trip history. These trips are handled privately without user identification using our navigation partner HERE. I suspect everything maps related on-device is a thin layer over the HERE SDK. I suspect that's possible because LightOS is actually a skin over Linux or Android.

puzzlingcaptcha 4y ago

There is a map app for KaiOS that essentially just wraps openstreetmap https://github.com/strukturart/o.map https://github.com/strukturart/o.map

iudqnolq 4y ago
Thanks! I forgot that on KaiOS you can just use web libraries. That's using leaflet.js, a excellent older library that's perfectly fine for most use cases.

usrusr 4y ago

Wouldn't web actually be a good example for browsers to leave the native behind? A lot of native map use has never moved beyond the generation of mapsforge (vectors rendered in the fly into bitmap tiles that are then used as bitmaps), because apparently that's good enough. In the browser, there's everything that evolved around MBTiles and the only thing missing would be some offline repository API filling the gap between a system map and isolated PWA containers.

iudqnolq 4y ago
I don't think you're right about the evolution of map rendering approaches. Isn't the vast majority of native map use Mapbox GL? You're right that linking to a vector renderer isn't too much work. I was commenting on the simplicity of writing a map app from scratch.
- usrusr 4y ago
  Sure, there's a lot of mapbox on the native side as well, but that is far more restricted to high profile customers (e.g. the Strava app) than in the browser. At least from my superficial impression, libre forks of mapbox legacy code seem to be far more alive in the subset related to the web than in the subset related to native. One cause I think is the lure of offline capability: when I'm in the browser I don't mind loading on demand, but as soon as native enters the picture I'll want at least an escape hatch to downloadable maps. And then the Pandora's box of provisioning, backwards and forwards compatibility is wide open and you happily stick to mapsforge or whatever it is you already have. (ps: and my post above was supposed to start "Wouldn't maps actually" instead of "Wouldn't web actually", but you seem to have read intention instead of words just fine)
  - iudqnolq 4y ago
    > least from my superficial impression, libre forks of mapbox legacy code seem to be far more alive in the subset related to the web than in the subset related to native. Just based on my superficial impression I think normal apps on the play store pay mapbox if they don't have a big budget and consider maplibre (the fork of mapbox's most recent approach) if they're big enough. My surface impression is maplibre is used by companies like Facebook who can afford to hire low level graphics devs and fork mapbox's work rather than pay the new license. For every feature, including offline, I think paying mapbox is the cheapest option with decent quality up to that scale. Of course, there are projects like mine that aren't motivated by profit. (I'm using mapnik, an independent oss project that got significant mapbox investment years back but which they now consider legacy).

isolli 4y ago

The e-ink Light Phone has directions and a map [0]. I wonder how they do it. [0] https://support.thelightphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402123489300-Directions-Tool https://support.thelightphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/44021234...

iudqnolq 4y ago
Based on a cursory look that seems closed & proprietary, so I'm not sure. Their privacy policy reveals online directions are sent off to a mapbox competitor > We've built the Directions tool, like all of our tools, with privacy as a priority. Light does not have access to any location info or logs of your trip history. These trips are handled privately without user identification using our navigation partner HERE. I suspect everything maps related on-device is a thin layer over the HERE SDK. I suspect that's possible because LightOS is actually a skin over Linux or Android.