4 ms·

This actually seems like a rational move. Whether or not these eastern (mostly Russian-speaking) provinces of Ukraine remain under the control of Kyiv or Mosco

This actually seems like a rational move. Whether or not these eastern (mostly Russian-speaking) provinces of Ukraine remain under the control of Kyiv or Moscow is really not something worth starting World War III over. The world should really be pressuring for direct talks between the American and Russian governments at this point (it is a proxy war, after all), to bring an immediate end to the conflict. Yes, that would mean Russia retaining control of those eastern provinces. If you see this as unbearably shocking and a violation of national sovereignity, well, there's that wedge of Kurdish Syria still under the control of the US military, so let's just bring an end to this debacle and not be hypocrites about it. If it makes people feel better, note that Russia's economic relationships with Europe are basically permanently damaged at this point, so they won't really be 'winners' either.

dayjaby 4y ago
Upvote. I hate the fact that this war is more about "letting Putin not win" than actually considering what the people in Eastern Ukraine wants for themselves, including peace.
- cmurf 4y ago
  No. There's zero evidence any Ukrainians want to alter borders. In 1991 when the borders were set, there was a referendum and all regions in Ukraine voted in favor of independence from Russia. In the Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine became a party to the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty, as a non-nuclear weapons state. Russia, U.S., U.K. recognized Ukraine under these borders, and gave security guarantees to it. Russia has violated this treaty by invading twice, once in 2014 and again in 2022. And violating numbers sections of the UN Charter and Geneva Convention, both of which it's also a party to. There can be no peace until Russia extracts itself from every inch of Ukraine, and there is no reason to trust any peace agreement Russia signs until they do so.

dayjaby 4y ago

Upvote. I hate the fact that this war is more about "letting Putin not win" than actually considering what the people in Eastern Ukraine wants for themselves, including peace.

cmurf 4y ago
No. There's zero evidence any Ukrainians want to alter borders. In 1991 when the borders were set, there was a referendum and all regions in Ukraine voted in favor of independence from Russia. In the Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine became a party to the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty, as a non-nuclear weapons state. Russia, U.S., U.K. recognized Ukraine under these borders, and gave security guarantees to it. Russia has violated this treaty by invading twice, once in 2014 and again in 2022. And violating numbers sections of the UN Charter and Geneva Convention, both of which it's also a party to. There can be no peace until Russia extracts itself from every inch of Ukraine, and there is no reason to trust any peace agreement Russia signs until they do so.