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The problem is that KaiOS is just a "big browser" so its usefulness entirely depends on how much developers care about the mobile web, well they don't. The mob

The problem is that KaiOS is just a "big browser" so its usefulness entirely depends on how much developers care about the mobile web, well they don't. The mobile web today is horrible to browse, websites are slow, most aren't designed with mobile first in mind, mobile has become an afterthought because companies want users to use their "native apps" where they have full control over ads, tracking and what not. Go to i.reddit.com and compare that version with the regular mobile website, there is no debate, i.reddit.com is bloody fast and light while whatever the regular mobile website uses is slow as hell. Why is that? Because reddit new design wasn't designed to be efficiently browsed on mobile phone. Same could be said with any ticket/hotel booking, eshops, or governmental mobile website. 99% of these aren't designed for mobile at first place. Slapping a CSS with some media queries isn't designing for mobile. KaiOS isn't a failure, the mobile web absolutely is since developers stopped caring about it.

Apocryphon 4y ago
I wonder what all of the PWA booster developers feel about the mobile web.
toastal 4y ago
It's not just mobile web. You need good accessibility--especially for keyboard--for this to work. But a lot of developers don't make their sites work without a pointer device. This is a problem on the web at large though. For instance, I needed to get a BIOS upgrade for my mouse issue on my Lenovo laptop, but their support site a) required JavaScript and b) wasn't using tabindex or keyboard accessible buttons/links to navigate it. Why this is required to get me a simple ISO or zip is pretty ridiculous. I should be able to use a TUI browser to get such downloads for my device and it doesn't require any interactivity. Beyond this, PWAs aren't the most popular because of Apple if I'm speculating. The PWA experience on Apple's OSs are so handicapped that it's often seen as a waste of time to develop for as Android users are the only ones that might bother installing the app and desktop discoverability is horrible (Fx stopped support for SSB before it even went to stable). Also there isn't a FxOS or KaiOS system that is actually used in the anglosphere where most developers still come from so the need to support is overlooked.
- jaclaz 4y ago
  >For instance, I needed to get a BIOS upgrade for my mouse issue on my Lenovo laptop, but their support site a) required JavaScript and b) wasn't using tabindex or keyboard accessible buttons/links to navigate it. Why this is required to get me a simple ISO or zip is pretty ridiculous. I should be able to use a TUI browser to get such downloads for my device and it doesn't require any interactivity. Call me a dinosaur as much as you want, but once upon a time those would have been on a FTP site, simple and easily accessible. Then the web "evolved".
  - toastal 4y ago
    I don't disagree. Luckily I just checked and it seemed the model was added to LVFS this month so I don't have to think about it so much.
easrng 4y ago
New reddit has a few different versions they seem to be A/B testing, some of them are lighter/faster, some restrict things like reading comments or viewing nsfw content to people who are signed in or using the app. I like libreddit for browsing, it's read only but I don't have an account so that's fine.
cozzyd 4y ago
yeah, many web sites work better in desktop mode on my phone...
_carbyau_ 4y ago
Which is weird, because the web is the one place where you can hit any OS mobile or not. I mean, yeah that adds complexity but not developing concurrent versions of apps has to be a win.

Apocryphon 4y ago

I wonder what all of the PWA booster developers feel about the mobile web.

toastal 4y ago

It's not just mobile web. You need good accessibility--especially for keyboard--for this to work. But a lot of developers don't make their sites work without a pointer device. This is a problem on the web at large though. For instance, I needed to get a BIOS upgrade for my mouse issue on my Lenovo laptop, but their support site a) required JavaScript and b) wasn't using tabindex or keyboard accessible buttons/links to navigate it. Why this is required to get me a simple ISO or zip is pretty ridiculous. I should be able to use a TUI browser to get such downloads for my device and it doesn't require any interactivity. Beyond this, PWAs aren't the most popular because of Apple if I'm speculating. The PWA experience on Apple's OSs are so handicapped that it's often seen as a waste of time to develop for as Android users are the only ones that might bother installing the app and desktop discoverability is horrible (Fx stopped support for SSB before it even went to stable). Also there isn't a FxOS or KaiOS system that is actually used in the anglosphere where most developers still come from so the need to support is overlooked.

jaclaz 4y ago
>For instance, I needed to get a BIOS upgrade for my mouse issue on my Lenovo laptop, but their support site a) required JavaScript and b) wasn't using tabindex or keyboard accessible buttons/links to navigate it. Why this is required to get me a simple ISO or zip is pretty ridiculous. I should be able to use a TUI browser to get such downloads for my device and it doesn't require any interactivity. Call me a dinosaur as much as you want, but once upon a time those would have been on a FTP site, simple and easily accessible. Then the web "evolved".
- toastal 4y ago
  I don't disagree. Luckily I just checked and it seemed the model was added to LVFS this month so I don't have to think about it so much.

easrng 4y ago

New reddit has a few different versions they seem to be A/B testing, some of them are lighter/faster, some restrict things like reading comments or viewing nsfw content to people who are signed in or using the app. I like libreddit for browsing, it's read only but I don't have an account so that's fine.

cozzyd 4y ago

yeah, many web sites work better in desktop mode on my phone...

_carbyau_ 4y ago

Which is weird, because the web is the one place where you can hit any OS mobile or not. I mean, yeah that adds complexity but not developing concurrent versions of apps has to be a win.