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The problem with chat experience is that it's really, truly not Android's fault, it's Apple's. It sucks because Apple wants it to suck to push iOS and macOS sal

The problem with chat experience is that it's really, truly not Android's fault, it's Apple's. It sucks because Apple wants it to suck to push iOS and macOS sales. Pretty useless blaming Android for that. I have managed to push most of the people I know to not use SMS or iMessage and use Signal - we can all have a high quality chat and media sharing experience with a comparable (or superior) security model on whatever device you have. iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux, etc.

GeekyBear 4y ago
> The problem with chat experience is that it's really, truly not Android's fault, it's Apple's. Apple forced Google to screw up it's messaging strategy for all these years? >Google has been unable to field a stable, competitive messaging platform for years and has thoroughly lost the messaging war to products with a long-term strategy. At least some divisions inside the company are waking up to how damaging this is to Google as a company, and now Google's latest strategy is to... beg its competition for mercy? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs...
- theptip 4y ago
  The article you link mentions Google asking Apple to use RCS, which is the industry standard for messaging interop these days, not SMS. Apple has so far declined, so nobody can function in their Messages app.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    >RCS, which is the industry standard The article I linked to points out that RCS, as used by Google today, is a proprietary closed source fork of RCS that Google has refused to create a public API for. >Google's version of RCS—the one promoted on the website with Google-exclusive features like optional encryption—is definitely proprietary, by the way. If this is supposed to be a standard, there's no way for a third-party to use Google's RCS APIs right now. Some messaging apps, like Beeper, have asked Google about integrating RCS and were told there's no public RCS API and no plans to build one. If you want to implement RCS, you'll need to run the messages through some kind of service, and who provides that server? It will probably be Google. So the pitch for Apple to adopt RCS isn't just this public-good nonsense about making texts with Android users better; it's also about running Apple's messages through Google servers. Google profits in both server fees and data acquisition. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs...
    - slavik81 4y ago
      If Apple won't implement RCS, can Google implement iMessage?
      - senttoschool 4y ago
        Apple isn't begging Google to implement iMessage. Nor is Apple creating a public smearing campaign against Google for not implementing iMessage.
    - willio58 4y ago
      Yeah it seems the only solution is for Apple and Google to truly come together and work on an open standard. At that point, if Apple refuses, it’s on Apple. I agree though, right now it really isn’t a defensible argument from Google.
      - ls15 4y ago
        The EU is going to mandate interoperability soon, because it turned out that these companies cannot be trusted with allowing users to do what they want to do.
        GeekyBear 4y ago
        SMS already represents universal messaging interoperability. Even ancient no-longer-updated dumb phones support SMS.
        ls15 4y ago
        Yes, but the EU wants to open up modern messaging: https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/24/dma-political-agreement/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/24/dma-political-agreement/
    - GeekyBear 4y ago
      Everyone needs search, and it's unfair that Google has spent over a decade creating a better search engine than its competitors, so Google should be forced to open source their search algorithms. Is this the argument you guys are seriously making? The solution for a competitor having a better product than you is to pick a single strategy and keep iterating on whatever it is you build, instead of abandoning one product after another.
  - THENATHE 4y ago
    And yet it refuses to actually open source RCS. Imagine if they could add RCS fallback to signal!
Manuel_D 4y ago
https://www.droid-life.com/2021/04/08/apple-android-imessage-lock-in/ https://www.droid-life.com/2021/04/08/apple-android-imessage... > the #1 most difficult [reason] to leave the Apple universe app is iMessage. . . iMessage amounts to serious lock-in,” Schiller commented that “moving iMessage to Android will hurt us more than help us, this email illustrates why.” They know it's lock-in, and won't be fixing it any time soon. Granted, moving to Whatsapp would resolve this but then you're using a Meta product.

GeekyBear 4y ago

> The problem with chat experience is that it's really, truly not Android's fault, it's Apple's. Apple forced Google to screw up it's messaging strategy for all these years? >Google has been unable to field a stable, competitive messaging platform for years and has thoroughly lost the messaging war to products with a long-term strategy. At least some divisions inside the company are waking up to how damaging this is to Google as a company, and now Google's latest strategy is to... beg its competition for mercy? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs...

theptip 4y ago
The article you link mentions Google asking Apple to use RCS, which is the industry standard for messaging interop these days, not SMS. Apple has so far declined, so nobody can function in their Messages app.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  >RCS, which is the industry standard The article I linked to points out that RCS, as used by Google today, is a proprietary closed source fork of RCS that Google has refused to create a public API for. >Google's version of RCS—the one promoted on the website with Google-exclusive features like optional encryption—is definitely proprietary, by the way. If this is supposed to be a standard, there's no way for a third-party to use Google's RCS APIs right now. Some messaging apps, like Beeper, have asked Google about integrating RCS and were told there's no public RCS API and no plans to build one. If you want to implement RCS, you'll need to run the messages through some kind of service, and who provides that server? It will probably be Google. So the pitch for Apple to adopt RCS isn't just this public-good nonsense about making texts with Android users better; it's also about running Apple's messages through Google servers. Google profits in both server fees and data acquisition. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs...
  - slavik81 4y ago
    If Apple won't implement RCS, can Google implement iMessage?
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      Apple isn't begging Google to implement iMessage. Nor is Apple creating a public smearing campaign against Google for not implementing iMessage.
  - willio58 4y ago
    Yeah it seems the only solution is for Apple and Google to truly come together and work on an open standard. At that point, if Apple refuses, it’s on Apple. I agree though, right now it really isn’t a defensible argument from Google.
    - ls15 4y ago
      The EU is going to mandate interoperability soon, because it turned out that these companies cannot be trusted with allowing users to do what they want to do.
      - GeekyBear 4y ago
        SMS already represents universal messaging interoperability. Even ancient no-longer-updated dumb phones support SMS.
        ls15 4y ago
        Yes, but the EU wants to open up modern messaging: https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/24/dma-political-agreement/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/24/dma-political-agreement/
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    Everyone needs search, and it's unfair that Google has spent over a decade creating a better search engine than its competitors, so Google should be forced to open source their search algorithms. Is this the argument you guys are seriously making? The solution for a competitor having a better product than you is to pick a single strategy and keep iterating on whatever it is you build, instead of abandoning one product after another.
- THENATHE 4y ago
  And yet it refuses to actually open source RCS. Imagine if they could add RCS fallback to signal!

Manuel_D 4y ago

https://www.droid-life.com/2021/04/08/apple-android-imessage-lock-in/ https://www.droid-life.com/2021/04/08/apple-android-imessage... > the #1 most difficult [reason] to leave the Apple universe app is iMessage. . . iMessage amounts to serious lock-in,” Schiller commented that “moving iMessage to Android will hurt us more than help us, this email illustrates why.” They know it's lock-in, and won't be fixing it any time soon. Granted, moving to Whatsapp would resolve this but then you're using a Meta product.