5 ms·

Isn't KaiOS pretty popular on feature phones? Or has the buzz on those died down a bit?

by rjzzleep 4y ago

junon 4y ago
It's like the leading OS for non-smart phones.
- slim 4y ago
  it's not. S3/symbian is still leading
  - Huh1337 4y ago
    Really? There's around 170 million KaiOS devices. I was unable to find stats for Symbian. Is it still so much? I thought the platform is dead for years.
    - ZiiS 4y ago
      tbh most 10 year old Symbian devices probably still work.
      - Huh1337 4y ago
        Yeah, I have a few in my drawer. The actual question is, does anybody turn them on for anything more than few hours of nostalgia? Last time I tried, it wasn't able to browse the web due to SSL errors. Also, did they ever get to support 4G? Where I live they already turned 3G off, so mobile internet in my Symbian devices doesn't work. I'd be very surprised if somebody actually uses it as their daily driver. Maybe as a really-dumb phone, only for calling and SMS - but anything smarter than that doesn't work anymore. Even the maps are a decade without any further updates.
  - junon 4y ago
    I went down the path of looking at "dumb" phones to offset my technology use as a SWE for personal reasons. Almost every phone was Kai.
throw_m239339 4y ago
The problem is that KaiOS is just a "big browser" so its usefulness entirely depends on how much developers care about the mobile web, well they don't. The mobile web today is horrible to browse, websites are slow, most aren't designed with mobile first in mind, mobile has become an afterthought because companies want users to use their "native apps" where they have full control over ads, tracking and what not. Go to i.reddit.com and compare that version with the regular mobile website, there is no debate, i.reddit.com is bloody fast and light while whatever the regular mobile website uses is slow as hell. Why is that? Because reddit new design wasn't designed to be efficiently browsed on mobile phone. Same could be said with any ticket/hotel booking, eshops, or governmental mobile website. 99% of these aren't designed for mobile at first place. Slapping a CSS with some media queries isn't designing for mobile. KaiOS isn't a failure, the mobile web absolutely is since developers stopped caring about it.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I wonder what all of the PWA booster developers feel about the mobile web.
- toastal 4y ago
  It's not just mobile web. You need good accessibility--especially for keyboard--for this to work. But a lot of developers don't make their sites work without a pointer device. This is a problem on the web at large though. For instance, I needed to get a BIOS upgrade for my mouse issue on my Lenovo laptop, but their support site a) required JavaScript and b) wasn't using tabindex or keyboard accessible buttons/links to navigate it. Why this is required to get me a simple ISO or zip is pretty ridiculous. I should be able to use a TUI browser to get such downloads for my device and it doesn't require any interactivity. Beyond this, PWAs aren't the most popular because of Apple if I'm speculating. The PWA experience on Apple's OSs are so handicapped that it's often seen as a waste of time to develop for as Android users are the only ones that might bother installing the app and desktop discoverability is horrible (Fx stopped support for SSB before it even went to stable). Also there isn't a FxOS or KaiOS system that is actually used in the anglosphere where most developers still come from so the need to support is overlooked.
isolli 4y ago
From the article: "KaiOS turned out to be disappointingly closed and oriented to tracking users and shipping advertising"

Isn't KaiOS pretty popular on feature phones? Or has the buzz on those died down a bit?

junon 4y ago

It's like the leading OS for non-smart phones.

slim 4y ago
it's not. S3/symbian is still leading
- Huh1337 4y ago
  Really? There's around 170 million KaiOS devices. I was unable to find stats for Symbian. Is it still so much? I thought the platform is dead for years.
  - ZiiS 4y ago
    tbh most 10 year old Symbian devices probably still work.
    - Huh1337 4y ago
      Yeah, I have a few in my drawer. The actual question is, does anybody turn them on for anything more than few hours of nostalgia? Last time I tried, it wasn't able to browse the web due to SSL errors. Also, did they ever get to support 4G? Where I live they already turned 3G off, so mobile internet in my Symbian devices doesn't work. I'd be very surprised if somebody actually uses it as their daily driver. Maybe as a really-dumb phone, only for calling and SMS - but anything smarter than that doesn't work anymore. Even the maps are a decade without any further updates.
- junon 4y ago
  I went down the path of looking at "dumb" phones to offset my technology use as a SWE for personal reasons. Almost every phone was Kai.

throw_m239339 4y ago

The problem is that KaiOS is just a "big browser" so its usefulness entirely depends on how much developers care about the mobile web, well they don't. The mobile web today is horrible to browse, websites are slow, most aren't designed with mobile first in mind, mobile has become an afterthought because companies want users to use their "native apps" where they have full control over ads, tracking and what not. Go to i.reddit.com and compare that version with the regular mobile website, there is no debate, i.reddit.com is bloody fast and light while whatever the regular mobile website uses is slow as hell. Why is that? Because reddit new design wasn't designed to be efficiently browsed on mobile phone. Same could be said with any ticket/hotel booking, eshops, or governmental mobile website. 99% of these aren't designed for mobile at first place. Slapping a CSS with some media queries isn't designing for mobile. KaiOS isn't a failure, the mobile web absolutely is since developers stopped caring about it.

Apocryphon 4y ago
I wonder what all of the PWA booster developers feel about the mobile web.
toastal 4y ago
It's not just mobile web. You need good accessibility--especially for keyboard--for this to work. But a lot of developers don't make their sites work without a pointer device. This is a problem on the web at large though. For instance, I needed to get a BIOS upgrade for my mouse issue on my Lenovo laptop, but their support site a) required JavaScript and b) wasn't using tabindex or keyboard accessible buttons/links to navigate it. Why this is required to get me a simple ISO or zip is pretty ridiculous. I should be able to use a TUI browser to get such downloads for my device and it doesn't require any interactivity. Beyond this, PWAs aren't the most popular because of Apple if I'm speculating. The PWA experience on Apple's OSs are so handicapped that it's often seen as a waste of time to develop for as Android users are the only ones that might bother installing the app and desktop discoverability is horrible (Fx stopped support for SSB before it even went to stable). Also there isn't a FxOS or KaiOS system that is actually used in the anglosphere where most developers still come from so the need to support is overlooked.

isolli 4y ago

From the article: "KaiOS turned out to be disappointingly closed and oriented to tracking users and shipping advertising"