5 ms·

Previous discussions over the years since its original release in 2012: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3871463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=387

Previous discussions over the years since its original release in 2012: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3871463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3871463 (April 21, 2012, 168 comments) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8818893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8818893 (Dec 31, 2014, 17 comments) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9250527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9250527 (March 23, 2015, 14 comments) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12157993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12157993 (July 25, 2016, 198 comments) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17935030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17935030 (Sept 7, 2018, 31 comments)

nazka 4y ago
We should also link all the problems this created. For instance: - Ex-Valve employee describes internal politics at 'self-organizing' companies (pcgamer.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17584563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17584563
- Ygg2 4y ago
  Any flat organization contains a undocumented, unaccountable hierarchy.
  - oumua_don17 4y ago
    Any sufficiently complicated flat organisation contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Corporate Hierarchy :). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule
- me_me_me 4y ago
  also all valve games are turning into money extraction machines Apparently flat structure and bonuses tied to amount of money you bring, combined with apathy towards their software allowed some weasels to takeover and slowly destroy their (few) games in the name of short term gains. And money is not even an issue for valve, its private company. It all looks like whole leadership doesnt give a fuck anymore, not even to pass on maintenance to 3rd party.
  - account42 4y ago
    Right, even Half-Life: Alyx, which thankfully doesn't have any "micro"-transactions, is still infected with a virtual currency you have to collect to upgrade your weapons. Gabe's "Actually money is how the community steers work." comment during the paid mods fiasco really shows the mindest that Valve works with.
    - me_me_me 4y ago
      Didn't know about Alyx, it doesnt sound like a game you could monetize in any way. Given its a single player game with few thousands players who have fancy googles :) The launch and handling of Artifact is a clear sign of valve's hubris or complete out of touch state. Or more realistically pure greed of people who would benefit of it. By people I dont mean valve as company, they make more money of steam in a day that they could have ever make of artifact in a year. Launch a paid card game at high of Hearthstone, that requires you to buy cards with competitive decks going over >$100 and micro-transactions to play it. Everyone knew it was crazy. And game died pretty much at the launch. Why the fuck would you even attempt making it a paid game?? Valve has money to keep a game like that free, develop community and get it to stable state before attempting at monetization of some kind.

nazka 4y ago

We should also link all the problems this created. For instance: - Ex-Valve employee describes internal politics at 'self-organizing' companies (pcgamer.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17584563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17584563

Ygg2 4y ago
Any flat organization contains a undocumented, unaccountable hierarchy.
- oumua_don17 4y ago
  Any sufficiently complicated flat organisation contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Corporate Hierarchy :). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule
me_me_me 4y ago
also all valve games are turning into money extraction machines Apparently flat structure and bonuses tied to amount of money you bring, combined with apathy towards their software allowed some weasels to takeover and slowly destroy their (few) games in the name of short term gains. And money is not even an issue for valve, its private company. It all looks like whole leadership doesnt give a fuck anymore, not even to pass on maintenance to 3rd party.
- account42 4y ago
  Right, even Half-Life: Alyx, which thankfully doesn't have any "micro"-transactions, is still infected with a virtual currency you have to collect to upgrade your weapons. Gabe's "Actually money is how the community steers work." comment during the paid mods fiasco really shows the mindest that Valve works with.
  - me_me_me 4y ago
    Didn't know about Alyx, it doesnt sound like a game you could monetize in any way. Given its a single player game with few thousands players who have fancy googles :) The launch and handling of Artifact is a clear sign of valve's hubris or complete out of touch state. Or more realistically pure greed of people who would benefit of it. By people I dont mean valve as company, they make more money of steam in a day that they could have ever make of artifact in a year. Launch a paid card game at high of Hearthstone, that requires you to buy cards with competitive decks going over >$100 and micro-transactions to play it. Everyone knew it was crazy. And game died pretty much at the launch. Why the fuck would you even attempt making it a paid game?? Valve has money to keep a game like that free, develop community and get it to stable state before attempting at monetization of some kind.