4 ms·

> This is the sex-ed argument all over again. If we don't mention underage sex, it doesn't exist. Talking about gay people doesn't turn someone gay. Democrats

> This is the sex-ed argument all over again. If we don't mention underage sex, it doesn't exist. Talking about gay people doesn't turn someone gay. Democrats nicknamed it the "don't say gay" bill but that isn't its name, its goal, or its outcome. It's about the age appropriateness of the introduction to the topic. The issue, to the parents who campaigned for the bill and the politicians who passed it, is gender. Unlike homosexuality (LGB), talking about gender does turn people transgender - or rather has the school hook the child up with hormones and body modification without the parent's knowledge. Just fyi, about the news renaming and reframing things before you hear about them, Florida republicans protected women's sex-based rights by making male-bodied people play sports on men's teams and the news called it "denying transgirls their human rights to play sports". > [To WonderWonder] Did you feel shame? If I was told that, and didn't feel shame, not sure I would have dwelled on it so much. WonderWonder is thinking of their children, and how they'll be told they're racist - and to sit in their shame - just because of their race. That's a pretty regressive outcome so I understand them wanting to avoid it.

wonderwonder 4y ago
Exactly, well said. I did not feel shame, I felt pretty irritated that I was being spoken to in that way and even more irritated at the thought that by the time my kids are getting their first job it could be way worse. They are essentially asking you to sacrifice your pride on the alter of being progressive. Girls being forced to play sports against men is irrational. The most troubling aspect though is as you said, schools being able to decide that a student is of another gender and act for all intents like they are without informing the parent or getting their consent. Any actions performed on a student by a member of the school staff should only be with the express written permission of the parent. Its my personal belief that a large percentage of the rise in transgenderism is because of kids being exposed to the concept via the media, pornography and school. If you keep the concept away from kids until they are older I am pretty sure the prevalence would fall dramatically. I am not anti trans, I wish everyone a happy and satisfying life, I just have no interest in exposing my kids to the concept. While very low in number, the situation with schools actually allowing drag shows on campus shows how far from common sense we have strayed. Society is catering to it. Parents should have a 100% control over their kids and any decisions made on their behalf. This opinion may be a little controversial but I'm also not a fan of thought police either where people are punished for having ideas or opinions outside of the norm. If someone does their job and treats everyone with respect at work, what they believe in their off time is their business as long as they are not a violent threat or breaking the law. I have on at least 3 occasions had calm rational conversations with open anti-semites (of the Jews rule the world and are responsible for its ills variety, not the kill them all variety) and even gone drinking with them. They knew I was a jew but we could still converse and be respectful. I would be fine working with them as long as they kept their attitudes outside of the office and again did not resort to violence or break the law. We cannot punish people for the contents of their mind.
sure_about_that 4y ago
==Democrats nicknamed it the "don't say gay" bill but that isn't its name, its goal, or its outcome.== The actual bill language sure makes it seems like the goal, as it was written with ambiguous phrases like "age-appropriate" and "developmentally appropriate": "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." [1] ==It's about the age appropriateness of the introduction to the topic.== Is it? I'm pretty sure it is grandstanding: "one of the key reasons critics cited in saying the law was unnecessary was that teachers do not cover such subjects in early grades anyway." [2] Lawyers disagree with you that it is only about "age appropriateness of the introduction to the topic": "Workshops about the law that her school district’s legal team held over the summer caused confusion. Some staff said they were told teachers in kindergarten through third grade could not display pride flags or photos of their same-sex spouses." [2] Are you sure your news didn't "rename and reframe" it? ==Florida republicans protected women's sex-based rights by making male-bodied people play sports on men's teams and the news called it "denying transgirls their human rights to play sports".== Protecting one group's rights by denying another group's rights, similar to women and fetuses. ==rather has the school hook the child up with hormones and body modification without the parent's knowledge.== I would love to hear more about all these cases. Can you share? ==WonderWonder is thinking of their children, and how they'll be told they're racist - and to sit in their shame - just because of their race.== No, they were mentioning their own experience in a DEI class. [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-flori... [2] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/dont-say-gay-law-brings-worry-confusion-to-florida-schools https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/dont-say-gay-law-brin...
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  > Protecting one group's rights by denying another group's rights How were the males involved denied their rights by the school having them play sports on the men's team? The females involved sure lose their rights when males are allowed into their sports and spaces. > I would love to hear more about all these cases. Can you share? Lookup "Keffals" and "Hoogland transgender". > Some staff said they were told teachers in kindergarten through third grade could not display [...] If you're using something as a lead-in to a forbidden topic for your class's age range, it would be forbidden. Generally teachers should be like counsellors and keep their private life private so it shouldn't be a problem. > Are you sure your news didn't "rename and reframe" it? Yes, because even if it was as "bad" as you say, teacher's don't have a right to tell the kids whatever they want. Teachers are already recommended to not tell kids what religion they are, and until recently, what their politics are. This is about the kids, the teachers have a job to do.
zzzeek 4y ago
> Unlike homosexuality (LGB), talking about gender does turn people transgender categorically false > or rather has the school hook the child up with hormones and body modification without the parent's knowledge. source? schoolteachers can prescribe medication and perform surgery? Are these teachers also MDs ? That would be unusual ? not to mention extremely illegal for teachers and doctors to treat children without the consent of their legal guardians? teachers can't even give kids a tylenol. > WonderWonder is thinking of their children, and how they'll be told they're racist the word "racist" in modern use refers to actions that are racist, such as voting for Ron DeSantis. It doesn't matter if in your heart you're racist or not, if you do racist things, whether you have any idea or not that those things are racist, that's what it means to "be a racist".
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Absolutely, I agree, every black person that votes for DeSantis is 100% a racist. They are doing racist things. Or are we on board the "only white people can be racist" bus? Come on friend you are now policing peoples minds. You have labeled ~50% of the countries population as racist, a pretty serious accusation. This includes a good number of minorities. People have different priorities in life, not everything they do revolves around race. Essentially the people that cry racism the most are generally the racists feeling like they have to white knight for the poor oppressed minorities. The worst part is that they just cant see it, most openly racist people can at least acknowledge it. Black people can do just fine on their own they are not helpless children looking for a hero. And they can vote for whoever they want.
  - sure_about_that 4y ago
    ==Essentially the people that cry racism the most are generally the racists feeling like they have to white knight for the poor oppressed minorities. The worst part is that they just cant see it, most openly racist people can at least acknowledge it. Black people can do just fine on their own they are not helpless children looking for a hero.== You are the only one who has made a claim about anyone being "helpless", but it's good to know that is immediately where your mind went. For someone who totally isn't racist, you seem to know exactly how racist people think.

wonderwonder 4y ago

Exactly, well said. I did not feel shame, I felt pretty irritated that I was being spoken to in that way and even more irritated at the thought that by the time my kids are getting their first job it could be way worse. They are essentially asking you to sacrifice your pride on the alter of being progressive. Girls being forced to play sports against men is irrational. The most troubling aspect though is as you said, schools being able to decide that a student is of another gender and act for all intents like they are without informing the parent or getting their consent. Any actions performed on a student by a member of the school staff should only be with the express written permission of the parent. Its my personal belief that a large percentage of the rise in transgenderism is because of kids being exposed to the concept via the media, pornography and school. If you keep the concept away from kids until they are older I am pretty sure the prevalence would fall dramatically. I am not anti trans, I wish everyone a happy and satisfying life, I just have no interest in exposing my kids to the concept. While very low in number, the situation with schools actually allowing drag shows on campus shows how far from common sense we have strayed. Society is catering to it. Parents should have a 100% control over their kids and any decisions made on their behalf. This opinion may be a little controversial but I'm also not a fan of thought police either where people are punished for having ideas or opinions outside of the norm. If someone does their job and treats everyone with respect at work, what they believe in their off time is their business as long as they are not a violent threat or breaking the law. I have on at least 3 occasions had calm rational conversations with open anti-semites (of the Jews rule the world and are responsible for its ills variety, not the kill them all variety) and even gone drinking with them. They knew I was a jew but we could still converse and be respectful. I would be fine working with them as long as they kept their attitudes outside of the office and again did not resort to violence or break the law. We cannot punish people for the contents of their mind.

sure_about_that 4y ago

==Democrats nicknamed it the "don't say gay" bill but that isn't its name, its goal, or its outcome.== The actual bill language sure makes it seems like the goal, as it was written with ambiguous phrases like "age-appropriate" and "developmentally appropriate": "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." [1] ==It's about the age appropriateness of the introduction to the topic.== Is it? I'm pretty sure it is grandstanding: "one of the key reasons critics cited in saying the law was unnecessary was that teachers do not cover such subjects in early grades anyway." [2] Lawyers disagree with you that it is only about "age appropriateness of the introduction to the topic": "Workshops about the law that her school district’s legal team held over the summer caused confusion. Some staff said they were told teachers in kindergarten through third grade could not display pride flags or photos of their same-sex spouses." [2] Are you sure your news didn't "rename and reframe" it? ==Florida republicans protected women's sex-based rights by making male-bodied people play sports on men's teams and the news called it "denying transgirls their human rights to play sports".== Protecting one group's rights by denying another group's rights, similar to women and fetuses. ==rather has the school hook the child up with hormones and body modification without the parent's knowledge.== I would love to hear more about all these cases. Can you share? ==WonderWonder is thinking of their children, and how they'll be told they're racist - and to sit in their shame - just because of their race.== No, they were mentioning their own experience in a DEI class. [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-flori... [2] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/dont-say-gay-law-brings-worry-confusion-to-florida-schools https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/dont-say-gay-law-brin...

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> Protecting one group's rights by denying another group's rights How were the males involved denied their rights by the school having them play sports on the men's team? The females involved sure lose their rights when males are allowed into their sports and spaces. > I would love to hear more about all these cases. Can you share? Lookup "Keffals" and "Hoogland transgender". > Some staff said they were told teachers in kindergarten through third grade could not display [...] If you're using something as a lead-in to a forbidden topic for your class's age range, it would be forbidden. Generally teachers should be like counsellors and keep their private life private so it shouldn't be a problem. > Are you sure your news didn't "rename and reframe" it? Yes, because even if it was as "bad" as you say, teacher's don't have a right to tell the kids whatever they want. Teachers are already recommended to not tell kids what religion they are, and until recently, what their politics are. This is about the kids, the teachers have a job to do.

zzzeek 4y ago

> Unlike homosexuality (LGB), talking about gender does turn people transgender categorically false > or rather has the school hook the child up with hormones and body modification without the parent's knowledge. source? schoolteachers can prescribe medication and perform surgery? Are these teachers also MDs ? That would be unusual ? not to mention extremely illegal for teachers and doctors to treat children without the consent of their legal guardians? teachers can't even give kids a tylenol. > WonderWonder is thinking of their children, and how they'll be told they're racist the word "racist" in modern use refers to actions that are racist, such as voting for Ron DeSantis. It doesn't matter if in your heart you're racist or not, if you do racist things, whether you have any idea or not that those things are racist, that's what it means to "be a racist".

wonderwonder 4y ago
Absolutely, I agree, every black person that votes for DeSantis is 100% a racist. They are doing racist things. Or are we on board the "only white people can be racist" bus? Come on friend you are now policing peoples minds. You have labeled ~50% of the countries population as racist, a pretty serious accusation. This includes a good number of minorities. People have different priorities in life, not everything they do revolves around race. Essentially the people that cry racism the most are generally the racists feeling like they have to white knight for the poor oppressed minorities. The worst part is that they just cant see it, most openly racist people can at least acknowledge it. Black people can do just fine on their own they are not helpless children looking for a hero. And they can vote for whoever they want.
- sure_about_that 4y ago
  ==Essentially the people that cry racism the most are generally the racists feeling like they have to white knight for the poor oppressed minorities. The worst part is that they just cant see it, most openly racist people can at least acknowledge it. Black people can do just fine on their own they are not helpless children looking for a hero.== You are the only one who has made a claim about anyone being "helpless", but it's good to know that is immediately where your mind went. For someone who totally isn't racist, you seem to know exactly how racist people think.