5 ms·

Elon Musk Blocks Ukraine from Using Starlink in Crimea

43 points by bj-rn 4y ago

arthurcolle 4y ago
This guy is really speed running his own irrelevancy. Where is Cybertruck Elon? Don't you have better things to do than mess with geopolitical issues than are like multiple orders of magnitude above your paygrade?
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  Putin apologists would say that he's "messing with geopolitical issues" by allowing the Ukrainian military to use Starlink (for free?) in eastern Ukraine at all. So Elon is far from becoming irrelevant, and that's the problem. There should be more services that compete with Starlink, so that sovereign Ukraine can't have its domestic policies vetoed by one guy who doesn't even live there. Failing that, the US should put a universal service obligation on Starlink, requiring Elon to only use the geofence boundaries that the US government approves.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    That would be a dark day for the US if the government compelled individuals and firms to support war efforts. Even more so if the US is not at war.
    - koshergweilo 4y ago
      This might be the case if the US government hadn't already paid starlink for the service
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I haven't read the service contract, have you?
- rvz 4y ago
  As soon as the robo-taxis weren't delivered as promised, it is clear that he doesn't care about anyone but himself. He knows that whatever he sells (even if it doesn't work), his fans will buy it anyway. He also knows that notoriety and playing the sidelines armchair general act will get the media eyeballs in attacking him again and will get him in the spot light as the provisional villain of the month, bringing him more fans. A cycle that only benefits Elon.
rossdavidh 4y ago
So, I'm not that into Elon Musk's actions here, but the headline makes it sound like it was working in Crimea, and he decided to block it. It was already not working in Crimea, and he declined to turn it on. I still wish he had, but the fact that he's sticking with the status quo on this particular point is highly relevant. It's more like "staying out of it" than it is like "taking Russia's side". At least on this point.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  Musk is not staying out of it. He has a lot of free advice for Ukraine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/04/zelenskiy-hits-back-as-elon-musk-sets-up-twitter-poll-on-annexed-areas https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/04/zelenskiy-hits... For which he has received the Kremlin's praise: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-kremlin-elon-musk-ukraine-war-peace-plan-twitter-poll-2022-10?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-kremlin-elon-musk-ukr... https://futurism.com/the-byte/russia-loves-elon-musk-now https://futurism.com/the-byte/russia-loves-elon-musk-now
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  The "status quo" under international law and US policy was that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, so when he enabled Starlink for Ukrainian, he should have enabled it for all Ukrainian territory. This is not "staying out of it", this is repeating Kremlin propaganda that Crimea belongs to Russia, and that the West should acquiesce to any nuclear blackmail that Putin makes. Now all Putin needs to do is threaten to nuke America if Musk doesn't shut down Starlink across all of Ukraine, and Musk will have to obey, if he's consistent.
  - strangattractor 4y ago
    Isn't it possible that making Starlink available in Crimea is in effect making high speed internet available to the Russians which would not necessarily be to Ukraine's advantage. I would think that many of the people that lived in Crimea and considered themselves Ukrainian have left or if they stayed don't exactly want it to be known. Vlad the Poisoner may just throw them out a window. Elon should get out of geopolitics and stick to what he knows best - overpopulating the Earth.
BMc2020 4y ago
Truth is the first casualty in war. There is a cyber war going on right now. Remember nothing is as it seems, and certainly the headline is not the truth. TL:DR; Always try to fight the war on the other guys land, not your own. Don't let the land be your mind.
- BMc2020 4y ago
krashidov 4y ago
My conspiracy theory is that Elon has secured some oligarch money to fund the twitter purchase in exchange for peddling pro appeasement propaganda. I don’t think he was always like this but I think it happened somewhat recently
- bogantech 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure they'd already have slapped handcuffs on him if this was the case, 100% chance intelligence agencies are watching his every move The decision to not provide Starlink service to Crimea was almost certainly made by the government
  - smt88 4y ago
    This is incredibly naive. We haven't done a good job of policing billionaires in the US for even the most egregious crimes.
    - bogantech 4y ago
      What about policing people with security clearance? If SpaceX continues to launch classified satellites I guess we will know he's not a Russian asset
- VieEnCode 4y ago
  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-09/musk-twitter-bid-counts-secretive--5-billion-fund-among-backers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-09/musk-twit...
jpeter 4y ago
He should be in jail for treason
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  That would be a dark day for the US. Citizens should have the right to choose when and when not to support War efforts.
mannerheim 4y ago
Crimea is still under US sanctions. Without an exemption, SpaceX/Starlink can't operate there.
- techdragon 4y ago
  This is the pretty simple explanation. Got to abide by the sanctions.
aaron695 4y ago
[dead]
retrocryptid 4y ago
Seems like a stupid idea for a business-bro to get into the national policy game. Were I Zelenskyy, I would now be thinking "Hunh. Dude's more interested in getting us to change our policy / warfighting plan than making money. Maybe he's sending all the data we're sending over starlink terminals to Vlad's people. Maybe we shouldn't really be using his services." I don't think Elon would do that, but Zelenskyy might not be able to take that chance.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Unfortunately he already gotten to the National policy game when he sent start link units to Ukraine. Is unfortunate that there is no room for nuance or middle ground in public opinion on this. It must be tough to be in a position of power where you have decision-making capabilities for what degree your technology will be used in military operations. Choosing not to support some military operations will obviously be conflated with actively aiding Russia.

43 points by bj-rn 4y ago

This guy is really speed running his own irrelevancy. Where is Cybertruck Elon? Don't you have better things to do than mess with geopolitical issues than are like multiple orders of magnitude above your paygrade?

dane-pgp 4y ago
Putin apologists would say that he's "messing with geopolitical issues" by allowing the Ukrainian military to use Starlink (for free?) in eastern Ukraine at all. So Elon is far from becoming irrelevant, and that's the problem. There should be more services that compete with Starlink, so that sovereign Ukraine can't have its domestic policies vetoed by one guy who doesn't even live there. Failing that, the US should put a universal service obligation on Starlink, requiring Elon to only use the geofence boundaries that the US government approves.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  That would be a dark day for the US if the government compelled individuals and firms to support war efforts. Even more so if the US is not at war.
  - koshergweilo 4y ago
    This might be the case if the US government hadn't already paid starlink for the service
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I haven't read the service contract, have you?
rvz 4y ago
As soon as the robo-taxis weren't delivered as promised, it is clear that he doesn't care about anyone but himself. He knows that whatever he sells (even if it doesn't work), his fans will buy it anyway. He also knows that notoriety and playing the sidelines armchair general act will get the media eyeballs in attacking him again and will get him in the spot light as the provisional villain of the month, bringing him more fans. A cycle that only benefits Elon.

rossdavidh 4y ago

So, I'm not that into Elon Musk's actions here, but the headline makes it sound like it was working in Crimea, and he decided to block it. It was already not working in Crimea, and he declined to turn it on. I still wish he had, but the fact that he's sticking with the status quo on this particular point is highly relevant. It's more like "staying out of it" than it is like "taking Russia's side". At least on this point.

clouddrover 4y ago
Musk is not staying out of it. He has a lot of free advice for Ukraine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/04/zelenskiy-hits-back-as-elon-musk-sets-up-twitter-poll-on-annexed-areas https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/04/zelenskiy-hits... For which he has received the Kremlin's praise: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-kremlin-elon-musk-ukraine-war-peace-plan-twitter-poll-2022-10?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-kremlin-elon-musk-ukr... https://futurism.com/the-byte/russia-loves-elon-musk-now https://futurism.com/the-byte/russia-loves-elon-musk-now
dane-pgp 4y ago
The "status quo" under international law and US policy was that Crimea belongs to Ukraine, so when he enabled Starlink for Ukrainian, he should have enabled it for all Ukrainian territory. This is not "staying out of it", this is repeating Kremlin propaganda that Crimea belongs to Russia, and that the West should acquiesce to any nuclear blackmail that Putin makes. Now all Putin needs to do is threaten to nuke America if Musk doesn't shut down Starlink across all of Ukraine, and Musk will have to obey, if he's consistent.
- strangattractor 4y ago
  Isn't it possible that making Starlink available in Crimea is in effect making high speed internet available to the Russians which would not necessarily be to Ukraine's advantage. I would think that many of the people that lived in Crimea and considered themselves Ukrainian have left or if they stayed don't exactly want it to be known. Vlad the Poisoner may just throw them out a window. Elon should get out of geopolitics and stick to what he knows best - overpopulating the Earth.

BMc2020 4y ago

Truth is the first casualty in war. There is a cyber war going on right now. Remember nothing is as it seems, and certainly the headline is not the truth. TL:DR; Always try to fight the war on the other guys land, not your own. Don't let the land be your mind.

BMc2020 4y ago

krashidov 4y ago

My conspiracy theory is that Elon has secured some oligarch money to fund the twitter purchase in exchange for peddling pro appeasement propaganda. I don’t think he was always like this but I think it happened somewhat recently

bogantech 4y ago
I'm pretty sure they'd already have slapped handcuffs on him if this was the case, 100% chance intelligence agencies are watching his every move The decision to not provide Starlink service to Crimea was almost certainly made by the government
- smt88 4y ago
  This is incredibly naive. We haven't done a good job of policing billionaires in the US for even the most egregious crimes.
  - bogantech 4y ago
    What about policing people with security clearance? If SpaceX continues to launch classified satellites I guess we will know he's not a Russian asset
VieEnCode 4y ago
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-09/musk-twitter-bid-counts-secretive--5-billion-fund-among-backers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-09/musk-twit...

jpeter 4y ago

He should be in jail for treason

s1artibartfast 4y ago
That would be a dark day for the US. Citizens should have the right to choose when and when not to support War efforts.

mannerheim 4y ago

Crimea is still under US sanctions. Without an exemption, SpaceX/Starlink can't operate there.

techdragon 4y ago
This is the pretty simple explanation. Got to abide by the sanctions.

aaron695 4y ago

[dead]

retrocryptid 4y ago

Seems like a stupid idea for a business-bro to get into the national policy game. Were I Zelenskyy, I would now be thinking "Hunh. Dude's more interested in getting us to change our policy / warfighting plan than making money. Maybe he's sending all the data we're sending over starlink terminals to Vlad's people. Maybe we shouldn't really be using his services." I don't think Elon would do that, but Zelenskyy might not be able to take that chance.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
Unfortunately he already gotten to the National policy game when he sent start link units to Ukraine. Is unfortunate that there is no room for nuance or middle ground in public opinion on this. It must be tough to be in a position of power where you have decision-making capabilities for what degree your technology will be used in military operations. Choosing not to support some military operations will obviously be conflated with actively aiding Russia.