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Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry. I respect them for that. They also have the absolute worst business and product s

Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry. I respect them for that. They also have the absolute worst business and product strategy in the world. Any unique product that they did not steal or acquire (and some that they did!) have been colossal failures or run into the ground. The irony of a company that has all their customer's data is that they still have yet to understand their customers. I have yet to meet a single person, anyone at all, who has expressed any interest in "The Metaverse". Even among my circle of friends who are heavily bought into VR. I struggle to find the appeal in a product vision focusing on letting anti-social people socialize. This is a similar case where I feel a large disconnect between how innovative the technology itself is, and how myopic the use case is. Who would actually use this? Whose job would this improve? This is a solution in desperate search of a problem. At least Hololens put together some convincing value propositions.

Scaevolus 4y ago
Plenty of people enjoy VRChat, because you can interact with friends, but Facebook's attempt to get people excited to interact with brands and ads and work in a heavily locked down Metaverse is ridiculous.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  You can also use VRChat on a Meta Quest. It's not one of those platforms that locks it's users out of choices.
erikpukinskis 4y ago
I’m interested. I would love to be able to throw on a headset and sit on the couch and watch a movie with my sister, where I felt like she was watching in the room with me. I also would like to have a meeting with my other WFH colleagues where I could tell whether people were making eye contact with me, because the conversation would flow smoother.
- s3p 4y ago
  Just like how over-ear headphones make my hair sweaty and itchy after a few hours, I can't imagine (personally) enjoying the feel of a clunky VR headset adding extra pounds onto my face.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Yeah, VR tends to have a hard-cutoff on the human body after ~2 hours. Most people will become physically exhausted before they reach that point, but if you do manage to make it a couple hours in, you'll almost certainly feel a little woozy. Honestly though, the feeling of the headset on the face is the least-salient part of that discomfort (to me). It really is like a heavier pair of over-ear headphones in terms of physical profile.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Plus the camera adds 10 pounds as it is... I'll see myself out now
- AndrewOMartin 4y ago
  There's a thing called Big Screen VR. I'm wondering if your comment is saying that it's not viable for you (don't have the time, equipment, not a good enough experience), or that you've not heard of it. I'm not trying to be snarky "I think you'll find" just wondering if you've considered and rejected Big Scree.
  - erikpukinskis 4y ago
    I don’t have a VR headset. OP was suggesting that no one wants it, I was just raising my hand and indicating what use cases appeal to me.
    - AndrewOMartin 4y ago
      Thx
- thunky 4y ago
krono 4y ago
> Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry Valve recently posted a job opening[1] that hints at ongoing efforts in the field. [1]: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/jobs?job_id=52 https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/jobs?job_id=52
otikik 4y ago
They understand their customers. Who are advertisers. Meta’s users are its product.
- legitster 4y ago
  Not necessarily the same for their hardware division. Their VR division is still primarily funded by device and software sales.
  - otikik 4y ago
    Every device is sold at a loss though, as far as I know. Meta got here in the first place because Apple filtered them out. So they want to be in control of the new device. Tried Facebook mobile, didn’t pan out, too strong competition, so trying VR. Bought Oculus and here we are. What is the alternative? That they honestly want to become a VR-end-user-centric company? Have you seen their track record?
oliwary 4y ago
I am interested, nice to meet you! I live abroad from many friends and family. If there was a way to casually hang out and replicating the in-person social experience better than video chat, I would jump on that. I already have regular Quest 2 sessions with close ones where we shoot the shit and also shoot zombies - it feels like having a friend over for playing video games. I for one am looking forward to being able to hang out in the same room, or discover new places, while feeling like we are sharing the same physical space. I am happy Meta is investing to make this closer to a reality!
- sneak 4y ago
  Why are you interested in casually hanging out with your friends and family under surveillance from an advertising company that will subject your private and personal communications to their censorship systems? Doesn’t that make you somewhat of a bad friend?
  - robbomacrae 4y ago
    How can wanting to chill with friends possibly make them a bad friend? You brought up a good point but then kind of ruined it with such a wild accusation.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      You're skipping the part about the advertising surveillance. If you were my friend and asked me to hang out, that's cool. If you were my friend but asked me to hang out where everything we did was knowingly by you subject to likely to have some company's algo running and attempting to influence what we did while hanging out, then yes, I'd say you were an asshole for a friend.
      - robbomacrae 4y ago
        I didn't skip that. I said "You brought up a good point". I agree it was a good point. But they ruined the argument a bit by being overly dramatic. It would have been better to skip the judgmental snide remark at the end so we could have focussed on the good point.
baby 4y ago
> Any unique product that they did not steal or acquire (and some that they did!) have been colossal failures or run into the ground Workplace, portal, and the glasses? They're still developing as I understand it and they haven't given up on anything. The only failure I can think of is libra, which was killed by regulators
ezconnect 4y ago
There's still something missing on that concept, Metaverse is just a higher resolution version of Second Life. It was exciting in the first few hours but there's nothing in it.
kilroy123 4y ago
Yes, I strongly think in the end VR will be huge. Massive online multiplayer games will be huge (think Ready Player One type of stuff). I think lots of people will use VR for work and hanging out with friends and maybe even dating. However, in the end I doubt this will be on a ~Facebook~ _Meta_ platform, hardware, and or game. It will be funny because Zuck and crew will be the ones who accelerated this. I predict they'll lose in the end.
- legitster 4y ago
  I think VR is already amazing for games. And maybe there will be some amount of social networking that occurs. But I have my doubts that there are enough people who would prefer hanging out virtually to significantly move the physical hardware in enough numbers sustainably.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  I don’t get “hanging around with friends” at all. How is it suppose to work when you have this dorky goggles blocking their face?
blake929 4y ago
I dont disagree that Meta is probably pouring the most money into VR right now, but there are other companies looking into it. Notably Apple might launch a similarly priced headset to the Quest pro soon. Bytedance has the Pico series which are basically Quest clones at this point, but they are looking to push the tech and outcompete Meta. They're not currently launched in the US, but that may change. Valve will probably launch an Index 2 eventually. Some lesser known headsets brands like the Pimax and Varjo target prosumer-grade and enterprise headsets in the US too.
- jotm 4y ago
  I have just bought an American Quest 2 and found out the Pico 4 (with new pancake lenses) launches next week for the same price. Am so kicking myself. I'll sell the Q2 at a loss and buy the Pico.
  - zlsa 4y ago
    I'm not sure where you're located, but the Pico 4 isn't being sold in the US which automatically excludes a huge number of people who might otherwise consider it.
    - jotm 4y ago
      Good, means I'm getting one when it's released :D I'm in Europe, pre-ordered on Amazon, was thinking of waiting for reviews but the 256GB version went temporarily out of stock so I just pre-ordered. Let's see if I get fucked heh. Funny enough, there was a scarcity of Quest 2s which drove prices up to dumb levels, while the US had Q2s aplenty :/ But really, I want one to watch stuff and play PC games and maybe use it as a monitor - the pancake lens apparently make it much more palatable.
maxsilver 4y ago
> Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry. I respect them for that I would argue Valve is the main driver of VR in terms of actual software + hardware + platform building. Facebook is just the biggest spender on VR right now. > Who would actually use this? Which is funny to me, because I can instantly think of over a dozen use cases for this stuff -- if Facebook was never involved. Use it for training, especially on-site training, use it for conferencing, use it for 3D visualization (basically half of the Hololens demos cross over) But with Facebook owning it, the value prop of Oculus Quest is zero. It's no longer a hardware or software platform, it's a console, effectively no different than a Nintendo Switch or a PlayStation. Doesn't matter if the Quest was the best thing ever invented, no one reading Hacker News could deliver any products or solutions on it without Facebook owning/controlling it, so there's no reason for anyone to try.
- peter303 4y ago
  A "killer app" may be new employee training. I heard in a Stanford computer seminar that VR accelerates training with stronger learning.
- pavlov 4y ago
  The iPhone and iPad are also consoles in this sense, and they’ve been quite successful as software platforms.
  - pornel 4y ago
    This is why Facebook is so obsessed with VR. They're jealous of Apple's anti-competitive walled garden in mobile, and the're hoping VR will be the next thing to grab.
- throwoutway 4y ago
  I love that you called it a console, because I got the weird flashback sense that I was watching a Nintendo Wii demo (of the teacher & student demo on the webpage)
- dylan604 4y ago
rvz 4y ago
> Any unique product that they did not steal or acquire (and some that they did!) have been colossal failures or run into the ground. The irony of a company that has all their customer's data is that they still have yet to understand their customers. The Marketplace (competing with Craigslist) has more than 800 million customers using it which they have built that themselves? > At least Hololens put together some convincing value propositions. Yet Hololens isn't aimed at consumers, Meta Quest Pro is aimed at both and the latter has the same use-cases as the HoloLens for half the price. > Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry. I respect them for that. And also the AR industry, which they have the technology (Oculus) and the research to do both. The death of Meta Platforms Inc. has been greatly exaggerated.
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- deleted 4y ago
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Scaevolus 4y ago

Plenty of people enjoy VRChat, because you can interact with friends, but Facebook's attempt to get people excited to interact with brands and ads and work in a heavily locked down Metaverse is ridiculous.

smoldesu 4y ago
You can also use VRChat on a Meta Quest. It's not one of those platforms that locks it's users out of choices.

erikpukinskis 4y ago

I’m interested. I would love to be able to throw on a headset and sit on the couch and watch a movie with my sister, where I felt like she was watching in the room with me. I also would like to have a meeting with my other WFH colleagues where I could tell whether people were making eye contact with me, because the conversation would flow smoother.

s3p 4y ago
Just like how over-ear headphones make my hair sweaty and itchy after a few hours, I can't imagine (personally) enjoying the feel of a clunky VR headset adding extra pounds onto my face.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Yeah, VR tends to have a hard-cutoff on the human body after ~2 hours. Most people will become physically exhausted before they reach that point, but if you do manage to make it a couple hours in, you'll almost certainly feel a little woozy. Honestly though, the feeling of the headset on the face is the least-salient part of that discomfort (to me). It really is like a heavier pair of over-ear headphones in terms of physical profile.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Plus the camera adds 10 pounds as it is... I'll see myself out now
AndrewOMartin 4y ago
There's a thing called Big Screen VR. I'm wondering if your comment is saying that it's not viable for you (don't have the time, equipment, not a good enough experience), or that you've not heard of it. I'm not trying to be snarky "I think you'll find" just wondering if you've considered and rejected Big Scree.
- erikpukinskis 4y ago
  I don’t have a VR headset. OP was suggesting that no one wants it, I was just raising my hand and indicating what use cases appeal to me.
  - AndrewOMartin 4y ago
    Thx
thunky 4y ago

krono 4y ago

> Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry Valve recently posted a job opening[1] that hints at ongoing efforts in the field. [1]: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/jobs?job_id=52 https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/jobs?job_id=52

otikik 4y ago

They understand their customers. Who are advertisers. Meta’s users are its product.

legitster 4y ago
Not necessarily the same for their hardware division. Their VR division is still primarily funded by device and software sales.
- otikik 4y ago
  Every device is sold at a loss though, as far as I know. Meta got here in the first place because Apple filtered them out. So they want to be in control of the new device. Tried Facebook mobile, didn’t pan out, too strong competition, so trying VR. Bought Oculus and here we are. What is the alternative? That they honestly want to become a VR-end-user-centric company? Have you seen their track record?

oliwary 4y ago

I am interested, nice to meet you! I live abroad from many friends and family. If there was a way to casually hang out and replicating the in-person social experience better than video chat, I would jump on that. I already have regular Quest 2 sessions with close ones where we shoot the shit and also shoot zombies - it feels like having a friend over for playing video games. I for one am looking forward to being able to hang out in the same room, or discover new places, while feeling like we are sharing the same physical space. I am happy Meta is investing to make this closer to a reality!

sneak 4y ago
Why are you interested in casually hanging out with your friends and family under surveillance from an advertising company that will subject your private and personal communications to their censorship systems? Doesn’t that make you somewhat of a bad friend?
- robbomacrae 4y ago
  How can wanting to chill with friends possibly make them a bad friend? You brought up a good point but then kind of ruined it with such a wild accusation.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    You're skipping the part about the advertising surveillance. If you were my friend and asked me to hang out, that's cool. If you were my friend but asked me to hang out where everything we did was knowingly by you subject to likely to have some company's algo running and attempting to influence what we did while hanging out, then yes, I'd say you were an asshole for a friend.
    - robbomacrae 4y ago
      I didn't skip that. I said "You brought up a good point". I agree it was a good point. But they ruined the argument a bit by being overly dramatic. It would have been better to skip the judgmental snide remark at the end so we could have focussed on the good point.

baby 4y ago

> Any unique product that they did not steal or acquire (and some that they did!) have been colossal failures or run into the ground Workplace, portal, and the glasses? They're still developing as I understand it and they haven't given up on anything. The only failure I can think of is libra, which was killed by regulators

ezconnect 4y ago

There's still something missing on that concept, Metaverse is just a higher resolution version of Second Life. It was exciting in the first few hours but there's nothing in it.

kilroy123 4y ago

Yes, I strongly think in the end VR will be huge. Massive online multiplayer games will be huge (think Ready Player One type of stuff). I think lots of people will use VR for work and hanging out with friends and maybe even dating. However, in the end I doubt this will be on a ~Facebook~ _Meta_ platform, hardware, and or game. It will be funny because Zuck and crew will be the ones who accelerated this. I predict they'll lose in the end.

legitster 4y ago
I think VR is already amazing for games. And maybe there will be some amount of social networking that occurs. But I have my doubts that there are enough people who would prefer hanging out virtually to significantly move the physical hardware in enough numbers sustainably.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
I don’t get “hanging around with friends” at all. How is it suppose to work when you have this dorky goggles blocking their face?

blake929 4y ago

I dont disagree that Meta is probably pouring the most money into VR right now, but there are other companies looking into it. Notably Apple might launch a similarly priced headset to the Quest pro soon. Bytedance has the Pico series which are basically Quest clones at this point, but they are looking to push the tech and outcompete Meta. They're not currently launched in the US, but that may change. Valve will probably launch an Index 2 eventually. Some lesser known headsets brands like the Pimax and Varjo target prosumer-grade and enterprise headsets in the US too.

jotm 4y ago
I have just bought an American Quest 2 and found out the Pico 4 (with new pancake lenses) launches next week for the same price. Am so kicking myself. I'll sell the Q2 at a loss and buy the Pico.
- zlsa 4y ago
  I'm not sure where you're located, but the Pico 4 isn't being sold in the US which automatically excludes a huge number of people who might otherwise consider it.
  - jotm 4y ago
    Good, means I'm getting one when it's released :D I'm in Europe, pre-ordered on Amazon, was thinking of waiting for reviews but the 256GB version went temporarily out of stock so I just pre-ordered. Let's see if I get fucked heh. Funny enough, there was a scarcity of Quest 2s which drove prices up to dumb levels, while the US had Q2s aplenty :/ But really, I want one to watch stuff and play PC games and maybe use it as a monitor - the pancake lens apparently make it much more palatable.

maxsilver 4y ago

> Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry. I respect them for that I would argue Valve is the main driver of VR in terms of actual software + hardware + platform building. Facebook is just the biggest spender on VR right now. > Who would actually use this? Which is funny to me, because I can instantly think of over a dozen use cases for this stuff -- if Facebook was never involved. Use it for training, especially on-site training, use it for conferencing, use it for 3D visualization (basically half of the Hololens demos cross over) But with Facebook owning it, the value prop of Oculus Quest is zero. It's no longer a hardware or software platform, it's a console, effectively no different than a Nintendo Switch or a PlayStation. Doesn't matter if the Quest was the best thing ever invented, no one reading Hacker News could deliver any products or solutions on it without Facebook owning/controlling it, so there's no reason for anyone to try.

peter303 4y ago
A "killer app" may be new employee training. I heard in a Stanford computer seminar that VR accelerates training with stronger learning.
pavlov 4y ago
The iPhone and iPad are also consoles in this sense, and they’ve been quite successful as software platforms.
- pornel 4y ago
  This is why Facebook is so obsessed with VR. They're jealous of Apple's anti-competitive walled garden in mobile, and the're hoping VR will be the next thing to grab.
throwoutway 4y ago
I love that you called it a console, because I got the weird flashback sense that I was watching a Nintendo Wii demo (of the teacher & student demo on the webpage)
dylan604 4y ago

rvz 4y ago

> Any unique product that they did not steal or acquire (and some that they did!) have been colossal failures or run into the ground. The irony of a company that has all their customer's data is that they still have yet to understand their customers. The Marketplace (competing with Craigslist) has more than 800 million customers using it which they have built that themselves? > At least Hololens put together some convincing value propositions. Yet Hololens isn't aimed at consumers, Meta Quest Pro is aimed at both and the latter has the same use-cases as the HoloLens for half the price. > Facebook (sorry, Meta) is the only one continuing to advance the VR industry. I respect them for that. And also the AR industry, which they have the technology (Oculus) and the research to do both. The death of Meta Platforms Inc. has been greatly exaggerated.

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