4 ms·

Which is why doctors and lawyers, two of the historically most highly paid and high status jobs, now graduate more women than men. Or wait a second, I guess it

Which is why doctors and lawyers, two of the historically most highly paid and high status jobs, now graduate more women than men. Or wait a second, I guess it isn't public knowledge doctors make a lot of money.

dijit 4y ago
This is overly hostile and I don't really want to engage with it because of that. To answer the question as coldly as I can: 1) Women are graduating from nearly all University programmes more than men.[0] 2) The role of Doctor is not as highly paid or prestigious as it used to be, at least in Europe.[1] [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behind-the-growing-gap-between-men-and-women-in-college-completion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behin... [1]: https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-you-like-to-work/sweden/opportunities https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-y... ; cites a 70k average where a project manager will make an average of 99k: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM1136_KO10,25.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager...
- peter422 4y ago
  - dijit 4y ago
    Actually it seems that the evidence is against you. In the most unequal societies (Russia[0], India[1]) the tech industry is much closer to gender parity than in the west. Sweden has gone further than any other nation on earth to be equitable across gendered lines yet remains extremely unequal in the actual working model. (In my former employer 14% of applicants were women, yet they constitute 20% of employed staff due to excessive D&I initiatives). I should be self interested, we’re talking about competition for work. It would be death to roll over. Jobs are absolutely zero sum- However my argument is backed by statistics, so I think you need to face the reality in front of you. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-39579321 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-39579321 [1]: https://go.451research.com/women-in-tech-india-employment-trends.html https://go.451research.com/women-in-tech-india-employment-tr...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
BlargMcLarg 4y ago
This is not the gotcha you think it is. Sibling already pointed some things out. Specifically for doctors, go ahead and look up what specializations men go into primarily and what specializations women go into primarily. The only high paying one I noticed being particularly female-dominated is dermatology, and it's not that much of a difference. The male-dominated specialties tend to have far more high earning specializations, and the ratios are far more skewed too. As for lawyers, I can't speak except for the fact lawyers work more akin to salesmen and make a lot of money based on performance, and once again, historically speaking, men have always dominated on anything performance-based. Law is an exception, and it's an extremely poor one at that. As for both, both medicine / biomedical sciences and law pale in comparison to every other field known to both pay well and do so with high security still being largely in favor of men, whereas fields with low pays and low security tend to be dominated by women. Most STEM fields women dominate aren't known for paying well compared to the ones men dominate. Comparing those fields to social sciences is a no-brainer. All of this still excludes entrepreneurship and high-paying blue collar work still being dominated by men. None of this exempts the fact historically, women have never chased money through career nearly as much as men, and have always placed far higher value on a man's status than vice versa. There are cultural reasons why this has changed, and none of those reasons are necessarily pointing towards improvements. We can open this entire can of worms if you so desire, but it will go far too off-topic for this.
- etchalon 4y ago
  It has not occurred to you that the historical data shows evidence of bias instead of evidence of choice and that's fascinating.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    Oh please, do yourself a favor and perform a very simple litmus test. Ask how many men are willing to date homeless women and vice versa. What's fascinating is how people are trying to avoid talking about the obvious motivator for men not present in women, and how the slow death of that motivator is affecting things. Take a look in the mirror before trying to subtly call someone ignorant, would you?

dijit 4y ago

This is overly hostile and I don't really want to engage with it because of that. To answer the question as coldly as I can: 1) Women are graduating from nearly all University programmes more than men.[0] 2) The role of Doctor is not as highly paid or prestigious as it used to be, at least in Europe.[1] [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behind-the-growing-gap-between-men-and-women-in-college-completion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behin... [1]: https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-you-like-to-work/sweden/opportunities https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-y... ; cites a 70k average where a project manager will make an average of 99k: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM1136_KO10,25.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager...

peter422 4y ago
- dijit 4y ago
  Actually it seems that the evidence is against you. In the most unequal societies (Russia[0], India[1]) the tech industry is much closer to gender parity than in the west. Sweden has gone further than any other nation on earth to be equitable across gendered lines yet remains extremely unequal in the actual working model. (In my former employer 14% of applicants were women, yet they constitute 20% of employed staff due to excessive D&I initiatives). I should be self interested, we’re talking about competition for work. It would be death to roll over. Jobs are absolutely zero sum- However my argument is backed by statistics, so I think you need to face the reality in front of you. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-39579321 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-39579321 [1]: https://go.451research.com/women-in-tech-india-employment-trends.html https://go.451research.com/women-in-tech-india-employment-tr...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

This is not the gotcha you think it is. Sibling already pointed some things out. Specifically for doctors, go ahead and look up what specializations men go into primarily and what specializations women go into primarily. The only high paying one I noticed being particularly female-dominated is dermatology, and it's not that much of a difference. The male-dominated specialties tend to have far more high earning specializations, and the ratios are far more skewed too. As for lawyers, I can't speak except for the fact lawyers work more akin to salesmen and make a lot of money based on performance, and once again, historically speaking, men have always dominated on anything performance-based. Law is an exception, and it's an extremely poor one at that. As for both, both medicine / biomedical sciences and law pale in comparison to every other field known to both pay well and do so with high security still being largely in favor of men, whereas fields with low pays and low security tend to be dominated by women. Most STEM fields women dominate aren't known for paying well compared to the ones men dominate. Comparing those fields to social sciences is a no-brainer. All of this still excludes entrepreneurship and high-paying blue collar work still being dominated by men. None of this exempts the fact historically, women have never chased money through career nearly as much as men, and have always placed far higher value on a man's status than vice versa. There are cultural reasons why this has changed, and none of those reasons are necessarily pointing towards improvements. We can open this entire can of worms if you so desire, but it will go far too off-topic for this.

etchalon 4y ago
It has not occurred to you that the historical data shows evidence of bias instead of evidence of choice and that's fascinating.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Oh please, do yourself a favor and perform a very simple litmus test. Ask how many men are willing to date homeless women and vice versa. What's fascinating is how people are trying to avoid talking about the obvious motivator for men not present in women, and how the slow death of that motivator is affecting things. Take a look in the mirror before trying to subtly call someone ignorant, would you?