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Anyone know any similar resources for selecting sources based on humane fish slaughter methods? I understand the method of catching them is important, but I am

Anyone know any similar resources for selecting sources based on humane fish slaughter methods? I understand the method of catching them is important, but I am looking out for ways to avoid suffocation/freezing death.

wil421 4y ago
Go out and fish it’s one of my favorite hobbies, kayak fishing specifically. I prefer to eat saltwater fish except trout. Both my wife and my families have beach places but I’m still limited to 6 or so trips a year. It’s hard to tell but you could research the types of fish plus the methods it’s caught. Lots of fish need to be bled out so they are incapacitated before bleeding. You can kill a fish instantly by a brain spike (ikejime) or bash to the head with a blunt object. As you said some fish are just thrown on ice but it can depend on the species. Even worse, methods are going to vary wildly from fishermen to fishermen and region to region. Wild caught is probably better than farm raised death wise.
- tablarasa 4y ago
  "Wild caught is probably better than farm raised death wise." I would be curious to hear your reasoning or evidence for this. From what I know, the ability to control conditions and processes is much easier in the farm context.
  - wil421 4y ago
    Have you seen the inside of a chicken factory? I’d imagine it’s a similar operation for salmon or tilapia farming. Here’s a link.[1] I’d rather have a person doing the work. [1] https://youtu.be/FFYti5PHxE8 https://youtu.be/FFYti5PHxE8
    - tablarasa 4y ago
      Interesting video, but it doesn't show slaughter at all, just impressive machinery for quickly processing massive amounts of fish. I disagree that having a person rather than a machine process food products is related to the ethics of animal consumption, but I tend to think about this stuff in terms of how do you continue to feed 9B people, around 3B of whom rely on seafood for their primary protein source. I consider it a great privilege to buy bespoke premium products that cater to my perceptions of the world, but it doesn't really solve the problems around mass producing enough healthy food to sustainably feed the world population. Having a human handle all of those dead fish and turn them into marketable products would drive their price up so much that it would push people to protein sources that are much more carbon-, water-, and nutrient-intensive. Making the processing humane is super important, but it needs to be rational and efficient.
- jrootabega 4y ago
  Maybe some day. I'm thinking more of the person who wants to keep canned tuna on hand for easy animal protein. I also agree that our perception of farm conditions for fish is probably not as accurate as for other animals.
tablarasa 4y ago
I'm not sure if there is a well-trusted authority on this akin to MBA but it is certainly a leading issue in the seafood industry. More governments are codifying an acknowledgement of animal sentience in various ways [1] and there is a lot of active research into the various slaughter methods used for ethical and quality reasons [2]. You can find a lot of research into existing and novel methods for "stunning" fish (i.e., rendering them unconscious to then slaughter), even the use of things like EEG to measure brain activity of animals [3]. This is not my area of expertise, but I think that the overall conclusion is that we could be doing a much better job of minimizing the suffering of animals in farmed and wild fisheries. The good news is that people are realizing that and working on correcting it. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/08/farmed-fish-feel-pain-stress-and-anxiety-and-must-be-killed-humanely-global-regulator-admits?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/08/farmed-fish-fe... [2]: https://www.globalseafood.org/advocate/fish-producers-benefit-humane-slaughter-techniques/ https://www.globalseafood.org/advocate/fish-producers-benefi... [3]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/are.14857 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/are.14857
- jrootabega 4y ago
  Thanks. I had done some reading on things like electro-stunning, and it seems like we're still in the awkward stage where it's generally recognized as better by all the major players, but there's still no reliable way to identify it when you're shopping. I'll ask the next time I go to the hippie grocery store, too.
  - tablarasa 4y ago
    Slowly but surely we are seeing good traceability in seafood. It's hard though, so it's taking a while. Checkout https://legitfish.com/ https://legitfish.com/
boston_clone 4y ago
humane slaughter is an oxymoron that attempts to insulate us from the weight that comes with taking a life. some methods are better than others (i.e., minimize suffering), but no slaughter is humane.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  If it's to put an animal out of misery when there's no way of treating an injury or illness surely it qualifies. But I agree the word "humane" gets somewhat abused when applied to situations where animals are more useful to us dead than alive. I don't mind "cruelty free", and that really should be a minimal criteria for how we treat other species.
  - boston_clone 4y ago
    I should have added a qualifier for humane slaughter in regards to meat processing. Yes, there are times when euthanasia may be appropriate - but it’s tough still to mete out the morality when no intent or consent is communicated, no? Most “cruelty free” labeling is also farcical, unfortunately. The amount of suffering involved with animal agriculture is repulsively shocking when fully grasped, and difficult to unsee unless willful ignorance takes the proverbial wheel.
- tablarasa 4y ago
  Perhaps that is true if you solely interact with food after it is dead and processed. Many people live much closer to their food production. I don't view the phrase "humane slaughter" as an attempt to insulate "us"; I think it is an acknowledgement by practitioners that they are mindful of what they are doing and to whom. It is also a direct reference to applicable laws where that term is codified. Some people view killing animals for food as entirely humane, which is to say some combination of natural and ethical. You may not view any kind of animal slaughter as humane, but if pressed could you describe how humane your soy, wheat, etc. production is?
  - boston_clone 4y ago
    What is humane about raising an animal in captivity and killing it for unnecessary consumption after only a few years or months of life? Surely you can figure out how eating beans is a little more kind.

wil421 4y ago

Go out and fish it’s one of my favorite hobbies, kayak fishing specifically. I prefer to eat saltwater fish except trout. Both my wife and my families have beach places but I’m still limited to 6 or so trips a year. It’s hard to tell but you could research the types of fish plus the methods it’s caught. Lots of fish need to be bled out so they are incapacitated before bleeding. You can kill a fish instantly by a brain spike (ikejime) or bash to the head with a blunt object. As you said some fish are just thrown on ice but it can depend on the species. Even worse, methods are going to vary wildly from fishermen to fishermen and region to region. Wild caught is probably better than farm raised death wise.

tablarasa 4y ago
"Wild caught is probably better than farm raised death wise." I would be curious to hear your reasoning or evidence for this. From what I know, the ability to control conditions and processes is much easier in the farm context.
- wil421 4y ago
  Have you seen the inside of a chicken factory? I’d imagine it’s a similar operation for salmon or tilapia farming. Here’s a link.[1] I’d rather have a person doing the work. [1] https://youtu.be/FFYti5PHxE8 https://youtu.be/FFYti5PHxE8
  - tablarasa 4y ago
    Interesting video, but it doesn't show slaughter at all, just impressive machinery for quickly processing massive amounts of fish. I disagree that having a person rather than a machine process food products is related to the ethics of animal consumption, but I tend to think about this stuff in terms of how do you continue to feed 9B people, around 3B of whom rely on seafood for their primary protein source. I consider it a great privilege to buy bespoke premium products that cater to my perceptions of the world, but it doesn't really solve the problems around mass producing enough healthy food to sustainably feed the world population. Having a human handle all of those dead fish and turn them into marketable products would drive their price up so much that it would push people to protein sources that are much more carbon-, water-, and nutrient-intensive. Making the processing humane is super important, but it needs to be rational and efficient.
jrootabega 4y ago
Maybe some day. I'm thinking more of the person who wants to keep canned tuna on hand for easy animal protein. I also agree that our perception of farm conditions for fish is probably not as accurate as for other animals.

tablarasa 4y ago

I'm not sure if there is a well-trusted authority on this akin to MBA but it is certainly a leading issue in the seafood industry. More governments are codifying an acknowledgement of animal sentience in various ways [1] and there is a lot of active research into the various slaughter methods used for ethical and quality reasons [2]. You can find a lot of research into existing and novel methods for "stunning" fish (i.e., rendering them unconscious to then slaughter), even the use of things like EEG to measure brain activity of animals [3]. This is not my area of expertise, but I think that the overall conclusion is that we could be doing a much better job of minimizing the suffering of animals in farmed and wild fisheries. The good news is that people are realizing that and working on correcting it. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/08/farmed-fish-feel-pain-stress-and-anxiety-and-must-be-killed-humanely-global-regulator-admits?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/08/farmed-fish-fe... [2]: https://www.globalseafood.org/advocate/fish-producers-benefit-humane-slaughter-techniques/ https://www.globalseafood.org/advocate/fish-producers-benefi... [3]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/are.14857 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/are.14857

jrootabega 4y ago
Thanks. I had done some reading on things like electro-stunning, and it seems like we're still in the awkward stage where it's generally recognized as better by all the major players, but there's still no reliable way to identify it when you're shopping. I'll ask the next time I go to the hippie grocery store, too.
- tablarasa 4y ago
  Slowly but surely we are seeing good traceability in seafood. It's hard though, so it's taking a while. Checkout https://legitfish.com/ https://legitfish.com/

boston_clone 4y ago

humane slaughter is an oxymoron that attempts to insulate us from the weight that comes with taking a life. some methods are better than others (i.e., minimize suffering), but no slaughter is humane.

wizofaus 4y ago
If it's to put an animal out of misery when there's no way of treating an injury or illness surely it qualifies. But I agree the word "humane" gets somewhat abused when applied to situations where animals are more useful to us dead than alive. I don't mind "cruelty free", and that really should be a minimal criteria for how we treat other species.
- boston_clone 4y ago
  I should have added a qualifier for humane slaughter in regards to meat processing. Yes, there are times when euthanasia may be appropriate - but it’s tough still to mete out the morality when no intent or consent is communicated, no? Most “cruelty free” labeling is also farcical, unfortunately. The amount of suffering involved with animal agriculture is repulsively shocking when fully grasped, and difficult to unsee unless willful ignorance takes the proverbial wheel.
tablarasa 4y ago
Perhaps that is true if you solely interact with food after it is dead and processed. Many people live much closer to their food production. I don't view the phrase "humane slaughter" as an attempt to insulate "us"; I think it is an acknowledgement by practitioners that they are mindful of what they are doing and to whom. It is also a direct reference to applicable laws where that term is codified. Some people view killing animals for food as entirely humane, which is to say some combination of natural and ethical. You may not view any kind of animal slaughter as humane, but if pressed could you describe how humane your soy, wheat, etc. production is?
- boston_clone 4y ago
  What is humane about raising an animal in captivity and killing it for unnecessary consumption after only a few years or months of life? Surely you can figure out how eating beans is a little more kind.