4 ms·

It’s pretty normal that if you want to use the developer tools on a platform and you are not a developer for that platform, you are going to have to figure out

by prange 4y ago

It’s pretty normal that if you want to use the developer tools on a platform and you are not a developer for that platform, you are going to have to figure out how to install the tools. This is true for Linux and Windows too.

dmitriid 4y ago
Why do developer tools like git require the presence of XCode?
- hbbwebw 4y ago
  I don't think they do. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git Downloading the command line tools package is just a convenient way to get everything, which is why people recommend it.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    When you try to install git it forces you to install Command Line Tools for XCode (whatever the f that is) which can take an unknown time to download, force you to accept a license and breaks, and force you to reinstall them at least once a year (or randomly the next time they break something)
    - prange 4y ago
      Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download, and forces you to accept a license? I think it’s pretty common knowledge that Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. Guess what - it’s free to download and sometimes it gets updates. It’s hard to understand why you are making such a fuss about installing developer tools on a developer machine. Sometimes I find I have to install gcc or clang or llvm on a Linux machine in order to install some other package. Why would I moan about this?
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        > Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download Why do I need GCC for git? > Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. Still doesn't explain why I need to download 670 MB of something to install otherwise separate tools. And why the hell things like git break when XCode upgrades a version
        prange 4y ago
        > Why do I need GCC for git? You don’t - but you do need it on Linux to install certain other developer tools. There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. > It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. So what? Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why? > Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers? This doesn't explain why I need to install 670 MB of tools to install separate developer tools that are not even Apple's.
        prange 4y ago
        > And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why? With all due respect, it’s very unclear why you are experiencing so much pain over this. It really isn’t a big deal.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        It's very unclear why you are defending this. Especially when it's a very common source of pain. E.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33168346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33168346
  - benrow 4y ago
    I was in this position just recently where git suddenly stopped working, due to needing a complete update of xcode tools. Annoying blocker but OK, let's get it done. But trying to download the xcode tools put me into a loop which wasn't completing for some reason. After several attempts waiting for it to download and install I gave up and created an alias 'git' which points to my brew install of git (in usr/local/bin I think). This will bite me somehow very soon, I'm sure.
- classified 4y ago
  They don't. Use MacPorts. MacPorts git also receives frequent updates. Xcode isn't updated that often.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    MacPorts installation guide literally tells you to install XCode Commandline Tools before even using them: https://guide.macports.org/#installing https://guide.macports.org/#installing The question of "why the he'll do I need to download 670 MB of unknown junk before installing tools that are not even Apple's" remains
    - prange 4y ago
      The question of why this download is such a big deal remains? Honestly if having to download some tools is your chief complaint about their developer experience, they must be doing magnificently.
- prange 4y ago
  There is no such requirement.

by prange 4y ago

dmitriid 4y ago

Why do developer tools like git require the presence of XCode?

hbbwebw 4y ago
I don't think they do. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git Downloading the command line tools package is just a convenient way to get everything, which is why people recommend it.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  When you try to install git it forces you to install Command Line Tools for XCode (whatever the f that is) which can take an unknown time to download, force you to accept a license and breaks, and force you to reinstall them at least once a year (or randomly the next time they break something)
  - prange 4y ago
    Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download, and forces you to accept a license? I think it’s pretty common knowledge that Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. Guess what - it’s free to download and sometimes it gets updates. It’s hard to understand why you are making such a fuss about installing developer tools on a developer machine. Sometimes I find I have to install gcc or clang or llvm on a Linux machine in order to install some other package. Why would I moan about this?
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download Why do I need GCC for git? > Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. Still doesn't explain why I need to download 670 MB of something to install otherwise separate tools. And why the hell things like git break when XCode upgrades a version
      - prange 4y ago
        > Why do I need GCC for git? You don’t - but you do need it on Linux to install certain other developer tools. There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. > It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. So what? Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why? > Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers? This doesn't explain why I need to install 670 MB of tools to install separate developer tools that are not even Apple's.
        prange 4y ago
        > And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why? With all due respect, it’s very unclear why you are experiencing so much pain over this. It really isn’t a big deal.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        It's very unclear why you are defending this. Especially when it's a very common source of pain. E.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33168346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33168346
- benrow 4y ago
  I was in this position just recently where git suddenly stopped working, due to needing a complete update of xcode tools. Annoying blocker but OK, let's get it done. But trying to download the xcode tools put me into a loop which wasn't completing for some reason. After several attempts waiting for it to download and install I gave up and created an alias 'git' which points to my brew install of git (in usr/local/bin I think). This will bite me somehow very soon, I'm sure.
classified 4y ago
They don't. Use MacPorts. MacPorts git also receives frequent updates. Xcode isn't updated that often.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  MacPorts installation guide literally tells you to install XCode Commandline Tools before even using them: https://guide.macports.org/#installing https://guide.macports.org/#installing The question of "why the he'll do I need to download 670 MB of unknown junk before installing tools that are not even Apple's" remains
  - prange 4y ago
    The question of why this download is such a big deal remains? Honestly if having to download some tools is your chief complaint about their developer experience, they must be doing magnificently.
prange 4y ago
There is no such requirement.