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Not sure exactly what you mean, but everyone can choose to either download Xcode via MAS or https://developer.apple.com https://developer.apple.com. I think I t

Not sure exactly what you mean, but everyone can choose to either download Xcode via MAS or https://developer.apple.com https://developer.apple.com. I think I tried it with MAS once about 7 years ago and have never done that again since.

ajkjk 4y ago
Something that a regular developer of Apple products knows, and the rest of us have to figure out, somehow.
- sixstringtheory 4y ago
  Oh I see what you mean. Yeah, it’s tribal knowledge unfortunately.
- prange 4y ago
  It’s pretty normal that if you want to use the developer tools on a platform and you are not a developer for that platform, you are going to have to figure out how to install the tools. This is true for Linux and Windows too.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Why do developer tools like git require the presence of XCode?
    - hbbwebw 4y ago
      I don't think they do. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git Downloading the command line tools package is just a convenient way to get everything, which is why people recommend it.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        When you try to install git it forces you to install Command Line Tools for XCode (whatever the f that is) which can take an unknown time to download, force you to accept a license and breaks, and force you to reinstall them at least once a year (or randomly the next time they break something)
        prange 4y ago
        Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download, and forces you to accept a license? I think it’s pretty common knowledge that Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. Guess what - it’s free to download and sometimes it gets updates. It’s hard to understand why you are making such a fuss about installing developer tools on a developer machine. Sometimes I find I have to install gcc or clang or llvm on a Linux machine in order to install some other package. Why would I moan about this?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download Why do I need GCC for git? > Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. Still doesn't explain why I need to download 670 MB of something to install otherwise separate tools. And why the hell things like git break when XCode upgrades a version
        prange 4y ago
        > Why do I need GCC for git? You don’t - but you do need it on Linux to install certain other developer tools. There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. > It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. So what? Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why? > Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers? This doesn't explain why I need to install 670 MB of tools to install separate developer tools that are not even Apple's.
      - benrow 4y ago
        I was in this position just recently where git suddenly stopped working, due to needing a complete update of xcode tools. Annoying blocker but OK, let's get it done. But trying to download the xcode tools put me into a loop which wasn't completing for some reason. After several attempts waiting for it to download and install I gave up and created an alias 'git' which points to my brew install of git (in usr/local/bin I think). This will bite me somehow very soon, I'm sure.
    - classified 4y ago
      They don't. Use MacPorts. MacPorts git also receives frequent updates. Xcode isn't updated that often.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        MacPorts installation guide literally tells you to install XCode Commandline Tools before even using them: https://guide.macports.org/#installing https://guide.macports.org/#installing The question of "why the he'll do I need to download 670 MB of unknown junk before installing tools that are not even Apple's" remains
        prange 4y ago
        The question of why this download is such a big deal remains? Honestly if having to download some tools is your chief complaint about their developer experience, they must be doing magnificently.
    - prange 4y ago
      There is no such requirement.
- hbbwebw 4y ago
  I use the MAS and it's always been fine but honestly it's not that hard to figure out. https://developer.apple.com/xcode/resources/ https://developer.apple.com/xcode/resources/ The download button gives options website or AppStore.

ajkjk 4y ago

Something that a regular developer of Apple products knows, and the rest of us have to figure out, somehow.

sixstringtheory 4y ago
Oh I see what you mean. Yeah, it’s tribal knowledge unfortunately.
prange 4y ago
It’s pretty normal that if you want to use the developer tools on a platform and you are not a developer for that platform, you are going to have to figure out how to install the tools. This is true for Linux and Windows too.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Why do developer tools like git require the presence of XCode?
  - hbbwebw 4y ago
    I don't think they do. https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/git Downloading the command line tools package is just a convenient way to get everything, which is why people recommend it.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      When you try to install git it forces you to install Command Line Tools for XCode (whatever the f that is) which can take an unknown time to download, force you to accept a license and breaks, and force you to reinstall them at least once a year (or randomly the next time they break something)
      - prange 4y ago
        Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download, and forces you to accept a license? I think it’s pretty common knowledge that Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. Guess what - it’s free to download and sometimes it gets updates. It’s hard to understand why you are making such a fuss about installing developer tools on a developer machine. Sometimes I find I have to install gcc or clang or llvm on a Linux machine in order to install some other package. Why would I moan about this?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download Why do I need GCC for git? > Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. Still doesn't explain why I need to download 670 MB of something to install otherwise separate tools. And why the hell things like git break when XCode upgrades a version
        prange 4y ago
        > Why do I need GCC for git? You don’t - but you do need it on Linux to install certain other developer tools. There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. > It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box. So what? Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers?
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools. And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why? > Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers? This doesn't explain why I need to install 670 MB of tools to install separate developer tools that are not even Apple's.
    - benrow 4y ago
      I was in this position just recently where git suddenly stopped working, due to needing a complete update of xcode tools. Annoying blocker but OK, let's get it done. But trying to download the xcode tools put me into a loop which wasn't completing for some reason. After several attempts waiting for it to download and install I gave up and created an alias 'git' which points to my brew install of git (in usr/local/bin I think). This will bite me somehow very soon, I'm sure.
  - classified 4y ago
    They don't. Use MacPorts. MacPorts git also receives frequent updates. Xcode isn't updated that often.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      MacPorts installation guide literally tells you to install XCode Commandline Tools before even using them: https://guide.macports.org/#installing https://guide.macports.org/#installing The question of "why the he'll do I need to download 670 MB of unknown junk before installing tools that are not even Apple's" remains
      - prange 4y ago
        The question of why this download is such a big deal remains? Honestly if having to download some tools is your chief complaint about their developer experience, they must be doing magnificently.
  - prange 4y ago
    There is no such requirement.
hbbwebw 4y ago
I use the MAS and it's always been fine but honestly it's not that hard to figure out. https://developer.apple.com/xcode/resources/ https://developer.apple.com/xcode/resources/ The download button gives options website or AppStore.