6 ms·

Bongbong Marcos Signs SIM Card Registration Act

23 points by favourable 4y ago

collegeburner 4y ago
this is a really screwed up trend. people should be able to use phone infrastructure completely anonymously. KYC in telecommunications, finance, gun purchases, etc. is always a morally wrong option for "fighting crime".
- metadat 4y ago
  I don't agree about guns and finance (it's not right to let peole easily acquire guns or trivially circumvent financial fraud regulations), but I do agree about KYC for a phone being overboard. Excessive phone tracking is already a huge thing at every level around the world, right now, today. iPhone and Android both send so much info back to the mothership, it is mind boggling. p.s. what country is this instance taking place in? Looks like it's in the Philippines.
  - collegeburner 4y ago
    yep philippines. i guess agree to disagree, i think people should absolutely be able to trivially circumvent financial fraud regulations because preventing them from doing so removes their ability to transact privately. similarly for guns i don't trust the state to know who owns what, like e.g. i want to make sure they don't know who has an AR-15 or standard-capacity mag so they can't actually enforce against existing guns if they pass a feature ban. just principally i'm opposed to putting additional requirements on how ordinary people operate because a tiny minority might do something wrong. and something about requiring an entity to retain information for potential seizure by the government just rubs my sense of due process the wrong way i guess.
    - metadat 4y ago
      I don't want my child to get murdered at school. Few things are more tragic than the ongoing wave of school and community shootings plaguing the United States. I also don't want to get into a gun debate on the Internet, because I'm unclear on what combination of words might persuade you to reconsider your position. What I do know for certain is the world needs much more love and empathy, fewer guns, and fewer self-centered assholes.
      - sennight 4y ago
        I feel a little silly responding to a literal "think of the children" argument with a call for actual reasoning instead of emoting... but I have low impulse control. Do you genuinely believe that firearms legislation/availability/capability is the root cause of the "ongoing wave of school and community shootings", and that a further erosion of a constitutionally enumerated right would serve to halt what is "plaguing the United States"? I mean genuinely - root cause. Or, do you suspect that there is a more difficult to address cause - but feel there is nothing to lose, due to a previously arrived at low valuation of the Second Amendment? Here is a hint: it isn't the guns causing the violence, and their removal will at best result in an "ongoing wave" of stabbings and acid attacks. If you actually want to address the problem then actually identifying the cause would be a far more productive use of your time... but again, that is the more difficult option - as is the case with most correct decisions.
        metadat 4y ago
        Comments like this are why I won't debate about guns on the Internet. I would prefer stabbings and acid to mass shootings. It's way too easy to get a gun, both legally and illegally in the US.
        sennight 4y ago
        I don't see why "Comments like this" would make you hesitant to do anything on the Internet, unless you are less interested in understanding and addressing the violence being discussed than you are in preserving some kind of self comforting narrative. > I would prefer stabbings and acid to mass shootings. So the elimination of a constitutionally enumerated right to no end... I see that I was right in guessing that you had no interest in actually protecting the children after all, they are simply being used as a pretext. Little wonder why you avoid "debate", the position you've established here is indefensible.
  - subradios 4y ago
    The problem is that we can think it's totally legitimate to stop terrorist money laundering, corporate crime, or illicit gun purchases - but what the KYC regime dictates is that it is impossible to run payments services without tracking all parties involved, and FINRA has been happy in the past to just send banks nicely worded letters to unbank their targets for being bad without any sort of due process. 'Wouldn't it be a shame if you were audited for criminal money laundering due to your association with person X' is enough of a threat itself that it gets banks to unperson real humans, and that threat does not require a judge or a jury or even a law.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  The concept might be viable, but real KYC feels like an entirely different concept from compliance KYC. I envision "real KYC" as the old timey nostalgic small town narrative, where (the agents of) the service provider you're dealing with actually do know you on a personal basis, and can therefore make sensible compliance judgements based on context. "Bob never comes in here asking for exactly $4999 in crisp twenties and sweating profusely, this smells wrong even if it technically threads the needle of standard compliance rules", but also "Bob has spent the last six months talking about renting a place in Montreal for the summer, so he's probably not money laundering when he tries to make an international transfer to a landlord." The problem is that it's fundamentally a human-relationship thing, and nobody knows how to do that at scale, nor do they want to because that costs money.
sneak 4y ago
Mint prepaid now requires a payment card (identity linked) to issue an eSIM (required by iphone 14) in the US, even though the eSIM is free. There is no way to get payment cards in the US without strong identity, thanks to PATRIOT/BSA. Germany also requires ID for SIM cards. Boycott services that demand a phone number or payment card.
eskaytwo 4y ago
This worked not so well for Optus in Australia
ForOldHack 4y ago
BongBong? Your KIDDING? How did he win? Oh, old money. Which crime is going to land him in jail. Register SIM cards? Oh THAT will go well - NOT. Register guns? Hell Yes. Register SIMs? That slippery slope will have everyone PWNED. L@@K at China. "Citizens in Ruili are complaining about lengthy lockdowns and terrible conditions in quarantine centers. Others in China don't want to hear..."
phantomathkg 4y ago
The whole world is running towards this direction, which is sad, there are only a few countries where registration is not need. https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-registration-laws/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-regist...
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
  The map in that article is out-of-date. Sweden requires registration now :(
- mc32 4y ago
  Green and red on the map color as keys is probably not the best choice of colors to choose.
lawgimenez 4y ago
I’m from Philippines and this was triggered because of the insane spam SMS received daily. I myself received 4-5 spam SMS daily, plus majority of the folks here in PH is not tech savy. But I am not confident this law can thwart these spams. Telcos here are still waiting for the IRR and it will take time for them to implement a registration system of this magnitude.
bananatype 4y ago

23 points by favourable 4y ago

this is a really screwed up trend. people should be able to use phone infrastructure completely anonymously. KYC in telecommunications, finance, gun purchases, etc. is always a morally wrong option for "fighting crime".

metadat 4y ago
I don't agree about guns and finance (it's not right to let peole easily acquire guns or trivially circumvent financial fraud regulations), but I do agree about KYC for a phone being overboard. Excessive phone tracking is already a huge thing at every level around the world, right now, today. iPhone and Android both send so much info back to the mothership, it is mind boggling. p.s. what country is this instance taking place in? Looks like it's in the Philippines.
- collegeburner 4y ago
  yep philippines. i guess agree to disagree, i think people should absolutely be able to trivially circumvent financial fraud regulations because preventing them from doing so removes their ability to transact privately. similarly for guns i don't trust the state to know who owns what, like e.g. i want to make sure they don't know who has an AR-15 or standard-capacity mag so they can't actually enforce against existing guns if they pass a feature ban. just principally i'm opposed to putting additional requirements on how ordinary people operate because a tiny minority might do something wrong. and something about requiring an entity to retain information for potential seizure by the government just rubs my sense of due process the wrong way i guess.
  - metadat 4y ago
    I don't want my child to get murdered at school. Few things are more tragic than the ongoing wave of school and community shootings plaguing the United States. I also don't want to get into a gun debate on the Internet, because I'm unclear on what combination of words might persuade you to reconsider your position. What I do know for certain is the world needs much more love and empathy, fewer guns, and fewer self-centered assholes.
    - sennight 4y ago
      I feel a little silly responding to a literal "think of the children" argument with a call for actual reasoning instead of emoting... but I have low impulse control. Do you genuinely believe that firearms legislation/availability/capability is the root cause of the "ongoing wave of school and community shootings", and that a further erosion of a constitutionally enumerated right would serve to halt what is "plaguing the United States"? I mean genuinely - root cause. Or, do you suspect that there is a more difficult to address cause - but feel there is nothing to lose, due to a previously arrived at low valuation of the Second Amendment? Here is a hint: it isn't the guns causing the violence, and their removal will at best result in an "ongoing wave" of stabbings and acid attacks. If you actually want to address the problem then actually identifying the cause would be a far more productive use of your time... but again, that is the more difficult option - as is the case with most correct decisions.
      - metadat 4y ago
        Comments like this are why I won't debate about guns on the Internet. I would prefer stabbings and acid to mass shootings. It's way too easy to get a gun, both legally and illegally in the US.
        sennight 4y ago
        I don't see why "Comments like this" would make you hesitant to do anything on the Internet, unless you are less interested in understanding and addressing the violence being discussed than you are in preserving some kind of self comforting narrative. > I would prefer stabbings and acid to mass shootings. So the elimination of a constitutionally enumerated right to no end... I see that I was right in guessing that you had no interest in actually protecting the children after all, they are simply being used as a pretext. Little wonder why you avoid "debate", the position you've established here is indefensible.
- subradios 4y ago
  The problem is that we can think it's totally legitimate to stop terrorist money laundering, corporate crime, or illicit gun purchases - but what the KYC regime dictates is that it is impossible to run payments services without tracking all parties involved, and FINRA has been happy in the past to just send banks nicely worded letters to unbank their targets for being bad without any sort of due process. 'Wouldn't it be a shame if you were audited for criminal money laundering due to your association with person X' is enough of a threat itself that it gets banks to unperson real humans, and that threat does not require a judge or a jury or even a law.
hakfoo 4y ago
The concept might be viable, but real KYC feels like an entirely different concept from compliance KYC. I envision "real KYC" as the old timey nostalgic small town narrative, where (the agents of) the service provider you're dealing with actually do know you on a personal basis, and can therefore make sensible compliance judgements based on context. "Bob never comes in here asking for exactly $4999 in crisp twenties and sweating profusely, this smells wrong even if it technically threads the needle of standard compliance rules", but also "Bob has spent the last six months talking about renting a place in Montreal for the summer, so he's probably not money laundering when he tries to make an international transfer to a landlord." The problem is that it's fundamentally a human-relationship thing, and nobody knows how to do that at scale, nor do they want to because that costs money.

sneak 4y ago

Mint prepaid now requires a payment card (identity linked) to issue an eSIM (required by iphone 14) in the US, even though the eSIM is free. There is no way to get payment cards in the US without strong identity, thanks to PATRIOT/BSA. Germany also requires ID for SIM cards. Boycott services that demand a phone number or payment card.

eskaytwo 4y ago

This worked not so well for Optus in Australia

ForOldHack 4y ago

BongBong? Your KIDDING? How did he win? Oh, old money. Which crime is going to land him in jail. Register SIM cards? Oh THAT will go well - NOT. Register guns? Hell Yes. Register SIMs? That slippery slope will have everyone PWNED. L@@K at China. "Citizens in Ruili are complaining about lengthy lockdowns and terrible conditions in quarantine centers. Others in China don't want to hear..."

phantomathkg 4y ago

The whole world is running towards this direction, which is sad, there are only a few countries where registration is not need. https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-registration-laws/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-regist...

TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
The map in that article is out-of-date. Sweden requires registration now :(
mc32 4y ago
Green and red on the map color as keys is probably not the best choice of colors to choose.

lawgimenez 4y ago

I’m from Philippines and this was triggered because of the insane spam SMS received daily. I myself received 4-5 spam SMS daily, plus majority of the folks here in PH is not tech savy. But I am not confident this law can thwart these spams. Telcos here are still waiting for the IRR and it will take time for them to implement a registration system of this magnitude.

bananatype 4y ago