5 ms·

"I was pretty sure my corporate vice president would be more likely to promote people who had hired more of them and thus made his contribution to the annual D&

"I was pretty sure my corporate vice president would be more likely to promote people who had hired more of them and thus made his contribution to the annual D&I report look good." Statements like this carry a lot of weight in this essay: He's "pretty sure" and "assumes" an awful lot. He also seems fairly ineffective at navigating bureaucracy. Taken to extremes, lots of corporate policies can seem a bit overbearing. This essay reads to me like he's reading corporate D&I policies to be maximally inflexible and frustrating in ways that are unlikely to be the case (at least from based on my personal experience working in large corporations + a short stint at MSFT many years ago).

geraldwhen 4y ago
Very recently I was only allowed to hire a black person. The assumptions here are probably correct. Search linkedin for “diversity recruiter”. It’s a role. Companies post specific reqs that state you must belong to a marginalized group in job posts often enough that it’s a bit stomach churning. I’ve personally had to deal with HR for having too many white men on my teams. For software developers in America.
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  These kinds of policies are also massively unfair to the exact people you are trying to hire. I know lots of engineers who would fit into the cliche "diversity" categories who are skilled and deserving of their job. But now they have to wonder if they were hired for merit or to meet some sort of a quota. The whole thing breeds resentment and drives teams further apart, in fact it creates the exact problems DEI is purported to solve.
  - crackercrews 4y ago
    Does make you wonder if heavy-handed affirmative action breeds imposter syndrome among its beneficiaries.
    - geraldwhen 4y ago
      In this case there was no competition. The person I hired was the most qualified of their peer group: all black men. We don’t get a plethora of good candidates through the normal recruiters anyway so there would be no way to know one way or the other how they would have stacked up in a wider job pool. I found one person that was solid so I felt I got kind of lucky. Restricting applicants by ANY criteria (diploma, work history, age, race, etc) in this market seems insane. My most recent HR insanity is an in office requirement. Candidates bail so fast. I don’t hide it though; there’s no reason to string someone alone that doesn’t want to meet the in office requirement I have no control over. And I don’t fault anyone for refusing to work in office for some portion of the work year.
- GenerocUsername 4y ago
  Our recent town hall included not only a "Diversity Up" slide, but also a "Whiteness Down" slide to which the Black host said "whiteness is down 9% but we can do better". I legit turned off my PC for the day. Still haven't fully recovered from that one.
  - boppo1 4y ago
    Someone needs to do a screen recording on something light this and give it some sunlight/reveal the company. I hear about this practice frequently, but have never seen video.
    - GenerocUsername 4y ago
      Ah, you'll love the zoom feature that watermarks videos and audio with invisible markers to identify leakers.
whatshisface 4y ago
If you look at the way discrimination was actually carried out a hundred years ago, you'll find that it was primarily done through strong hints rather than through having policemen standing outside. If a department head is sending out memos that cause middle managers to get the message not to hire black people, that is all it takes. It did not even require 100% compliance, as long as there is a strong headwind at every step of the advancement process, nobody will make it to the top that's not being favored.
throwawsy51573 4y ago
MS gives higher compensation for diverse hiring, it is not a far reach to believe it also affects promotions. Especially if you contributed to your boss's bonus
bioemerl 4y ago
> Statements like this carry a lot of weight in this essay: He's "pretty sure" and "assumes" an awful lot. Sure. If it wasn't pretty sure or assumes Microsoft could be sued over it, so Microsoft implements these policies as harshly as they can without opening up the path to a clear lawsuit. It's standard operating procedure for most discrimination.
abigail95 4y ago
We know how to reduce bias in hiring. Using a blind audition. A much smaller amount of information about the applicants origin leaks through. Implicit bias is attacked via limiting the information that it can act on. It seems categorizing people by race and gender at the individual level is a recipe for disaster and gives racists the power to do exactly what they want, pick and choose which types of people get to benefit. If you give a regular person information about a persons race and gender, the damage they can do is limited to whatever implicit bias (if any) they have. If you give these tools to a racist or sexist, you've given them the keys to the kingdom. The conclusion is, why is Microsoft making it a requirement to know about race and gender at every single hiring step? Surely this just needs to be an aggeregate statistic right?
listless 4y ago
I have worked at MSFT and the author is correct. It’s not explicitly said, but everyone knows you have to hire diverse people if you want to get promoted. And those folks are incredibly hard to find so you end up ignoring hundreds of qualified candidates desperately searching for the diverse one who is at the very least somewhat qualified.

geraldwhen 4y ago

Very recently I was only allowed to hire a black person. The assumptions here are probably correct. Search linkedin for “diversity recruiter”. It’s a role. Companies post specific reqs that state you must belong to a marginalized group in job posts often enough that it’s a bit stomach churning. I’ve personally had to deal with HR for having too many white men on my teams. For software developers in America.

oceanplexian 4y ago
These kinds of policies are also massively unfair to the exact people you are trying to hire. I know lots of engineers who would fit into the cliche "diversity" categories who are skilled and deserving of their job. But now they have to wonder if they were hired for merit or to meet some sort of a quota. The whole thing breeds resentment and drives teams further apart, in fact it creates the exact problems DEI is purported to solve.
- crackercrews 4y ago
  Does make you wonder if heavy-handed affirmative action breeds imposter syndrome among its beneficiaries.
  - geraldwhen 4y ago
    In this case there was no competition. The person I hired was the most qualified of their peer group: all black men. We don’t get a plethora of good candidates through the normal recruiters anyway so there would be no way to know one way or the other how they would have stacked up in a wider job pool. I found one person that was solid so I felt I got kind of lucky. Restricting applicants by ANY criteria (diploma, work history, age, race, etc) in this market seems insane. My most recent HR insanity is an in office requirement. Candidates bail so fast. I don’t hide it though; there’s no reason to string someone alone that doesn’t want to meet the in office requirement I have no control over. And I don’t fault anyone for refusing to work in office for some portion of the work year.
GenerocUsername 4y ago
Our recent town hall included not only a "Diversity Up" slide, but also a "Whiteness Down" slide to which the Black host said "whiteness is down 9% but we can do better". I legit turned off my PC for the day. Still haven't fully recovered from that one.
- boppo1 4y ago
  Someone needs to do a screen recording on something light this and give it some sunlight/reveal the company. I hear about this practice frequently, but have never seen video.
  - GenerocUsername 4y ago
    Ah, you'll love the zoom feature that watermarks videos and audio with invisible markers to identify leakers.

whatshisface 4y ago

If you look at the way discrimination was actually carried out a hundred years ago, you'll find that it was primarily done through strong hints rather than through having policemen standing outside. If a department head is sending out memos that cause middle managers to get the message not to hire black people, that is all it takes. It did not even require 100% compliance, as long as there is a strong headwind at every step of the advancement process, nobody will make it to the top that's not being favored.

throwawsy51573 4y ago

MS gives higher compensation for diverse hiring, it is not a far reach to believe it also affects promotions. Especially if you contributed to your boss's bonus

bioemerl 4y ago

> Statements like this carry a lot of weight in this essay: He's "pretty sure" and "assumes" an awful lot. Sure. If it wasn't pretty sure or assumes Microsoft could be sued over it, so Microsoft implements these policies as harshly as they can without opening up the path to a clear lawsuit. It's standard operating procedure for most discrimination.

abigail95 4y ago

We know how to reduce bias in hiring. Using a blind audition. A much smaller amount of information about the applicants origin leaks through. Implicit bias is attacked via limiting the information that it can act on. It seems categorizing people by race and gender at the individual level is a recipe for disaster and gives racists the power to do exactly what they want, pick and choose which types of people get to benefit. If you give a regular person information about a persons race and gender, the damage they can do is limited to whatever implicit bias (if any) they have. If you give these tools to a racist or sexist, you've given them the keys to the kingdom. The conclusion is, why is Microsoft making it a requirement to know about race and gender at every single hiring step? Surely this just needs to be an aggeregate statistic right?

listless 4y ago

I have worked at MSFT and the author is correct. It’s not explicitly said, but everyone knows you have to hire diverse people if you want to get promoted. And those folks are incredibly hard to find so you end up ignoring hundreds of qualified candidates desperately searching for the diverse one who is at the very least somewhat qualified.