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Most people with an EV will be fine with a simple 19kW AC charger in their garage. No batteries or solar required. Vehicle-to-home or V2G is also something that

Most people with an EV will be fine with a simple 19kW AC charger in their garage. No batteries or solar required. Vehicle-to-home or V2G is also something that nobody cares about in the residential world, and only in certain commercial areas. Solar and batteries I get, but that's actually quite independent of electric cars.

conjecTech 4y ago
An EV is a huge battery on wheels. And typically it's far cheaper per kwh than dedicated solutions. Combining the two is a fantastic source of economies and convenience. I'm sure a lot of people in California would have appreciated the optionality of V2G this summer when there was a threat of blackout and PGE was paying $2/kwh for people to supply the grid from their local storage.
- ianai 4y ago
  It’s got to be a good synergy for certain fleet type vehicles too.
krallja 4y ago
19kW is 80A@240V, which is just an absurd amount of power. Almost everyone will be fine with less than half that (9.6kW = 40A@240V, the max you are allowed to push continuously through a NEMA plug), and at least in the U.S. is the standard "EV-ready" plug: NEMA 14-50. A lot of people will be just peachy with the 1500W of Level 1!
- phpthrowaway99 4y ago
  1500 watts of Level 1 would recharge a Tesla after a weekend road trip in.... 3 days?
  - krallja 4y ago
    Yes. Are you planning on taking another weekend road trip in less than three days? If not, L1 is still fine. You don't need to keep the battery 100% full all the time, just like you don't need your gas tank at F all the time.
    - phpthrowaway99 4y ago
      If you buy a Tesla, hopefully.its because you actually drive a decent amount. Otherwise, well, I think it's a waste. I live in a commuter town that most tech people wouldnt be caught dead in... Most people are blue collar. And there are a shocking amount of Tesla's and Bolts around.. why? Because they are great commute cars. If you don't drive much, and have $50-100k to spend, you buy an Audi or BMW. If you drive a lot, a Tesla makes sense. Understanding that, yes most people would be in trouble if they got into their Tesla on Monday morning and it had.... 50 miles of range. And you don't need to keep your gas tank at full because you can fill it up anywhere and everywhere at anytime in 5 minutes.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  I went with a 14-30 when I installed the plug in our garage, as that's what the charger I was using with our existing dryer used. Considered the 50A upgrade, but honestly didn't matter, since I still can get to 80% any random night.
  - krallja 4y ago
    Yep, that's more than enough. I first got a 6-20 since that's the L2 plug that came with my PHEV's provided charger, and the car can't physically charge any faster than 4.3kW anyway. The only reason we're putting a 14-50 in now is that it's shorthand for "EV-ready" real estate listings if we ever want to sell the house, and the car we hope to get next year can support 9.6kW.
phpthrowaway99 4y ago
Everyone I know lists having a large home backup power source as the #1 thing they like about electric cars besides lower cost per mile. If you leave your bubble a little you'll learn a lot. And Im only 50 miles east of your bubble.
- phkahler 4y ago
  >> If you leave your bubble a little you'll learn a lot I'm not in that much of a bubble. I'm currently working at a company that makes 60-120kW DC fast chargers. I've talked to many people who actually own EVs. I get that the "home backup" use case is a bonus, but it's not a key selling point and it costs more. Also, the utilities want to use your car for "grid support" by making it bi-directional which is different than using your car as a backup when the power goes out. For backup you need the ability to disconnect the house from the grid while powering it from the car, and that's additional cost that people will balk at.
bdcravens 4y ago
I bought the Kia EV6 (and cancelled a Model 3 reservation) for a variety of reasons, and the V2L functionality (obv not exactly the same thing as V2G or V2H) was definitely a bonus point in my consideration. Funny enough, first time I used it was so I could run a fan in the garage while I turned the house power off while installing a 14-30 (30 amp) plug for charging.
mrich 4y ago
Would love to pay a premium for having V2H functionality for my next car, but most manufacturers don't support it yet, and the utilities don't easily either. It would save me from buying an additional battery which in addition to the high cost will take up more space inside the house and is also a fire risk.
throw0101c 4y ago
> Most people with an EV will be fine with a simple 19kW AC charger in their garage. Technology Connections (of dishwasher fame) goes over why you probably need much less: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&t=28m09s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&t=28m09s

conjecTech 4y ago

An EV is a huge battery on wheels. And typically it's far cheaper per kwh than dedicated solutions. Combining the two is a fantastic source of economies and convenience. I'm sure a lot of people in California would have appreciated the optionality of V2G this summer when there was a threat of blackout and PGE was paying $2/kwh for people to supply the grid from their local storage.

ianai 4y ago
It’s got to be a good synergy for certain fleet type vehicles too.

krallja 4y ago

19kW is 80A@240V, which is just an absurd amount of power. Almost everyone will be fine with less than half that (9.6kW = 40A@240V, the max you are allowed to push continuously through a NEMA plug), and at least in the U.S. is the standard "EV-ready" plug: NEMA 14-50. A lot of people will be just peachy with the 1500W of Level 1!

phpthrowaway99 4y ago
1500 watts of Level 1 would recharge a Tesla after a weekend road trip in.... 3 days?
- krallja 4y ago
  Yes. Are you planning on taking another weekend road trip in less than three days? If not, L1 is still fine. You don't need to keep the battery 100% full all the time, just like you don't need your gas tank at F all the time.
  - phpthrowaway99 4y ago
    If you buy a Tesla, hopefully.its because you actually drive a decent amount. Otherwise, well, I think it's a waste. I live in a commuter town that most tech people wouldnt be caught dead in... Most people are blue collar. And there are a shocking amount of Tesla's and Bolts around.. why? Because they are great commute cars. If you don't drive much, and have $50-100k to spend, you buy an Audi or BMW. If you drive a lot, a Tesla makes sense. Understanding that, yes most people would be in trouble if they got into their Tesla on Monday morning and it had.... 50 miles of range. And you don't need to keep your gas tank at full because you can fill it up anywhere and everywhere at anytime in 5 minutes.
bdcravens 4y ago
I went with a 14-30 when I installed the plug in our garage, as that's what the charger I was using with our existing dryer used. Considered the 50A upgrade, but honestly didn't matter, since I still can get to 80% any random night.
- krallja 4y ago
  Yep, that's more than enough. I first got a 6-20 since that's the L2 plug that came with my PHEV's provided charger, and the car can't physically charge any faster than 4.3kW anyway. The only reason we're putting a 14-50 in now is that it's shorthand for "EV-ready" real estate listings if we ever want to sell the house, and the car we hope to get next year can support 9.6kW.

phpthrowaway99 4y ago

Everyone I know lists having a large home backup power source as the #1 thing they like about electric cars besides lower cost per mile. If you leave your bubble a little you'll learn a lot. And Im only 50 miles east of your bubble.

phkahler 4y ago
>> If you leave your bubble a little you'll learn a lot I'm not in that much of a bubble. I'm currently working at a company that makes 60-120kW DC fast chargers. I've talked to many people who actually own EVs. I get that the "home backup" use case is a bonus, but it's not a key selling point and it costs more. Also, the utilities want to use your car for "grid support" by making it bi-directional which is different than using your car as a backup when the power goes out. For backup you need the ability to disconnect the house from the grid while powering it from the car, and that's additional cost that people will balk at.

bdcravens 4y ago

I bought the Kia EV6 (and cancelled a Model 3 reservation) for a variety of reasons, and the V2L functionality (obv not exactly the same thing as V2G or V2H) was definitely a bonus point in my consideration. Funny enough, first time I used it was so I could run a fan in the garage while I turned the house power off while installing a 14-30 (30 amp) plug for charging.

mrich 4y ago

Would love to pay a premium for having V2H functionality for my next car, but most manufacturers don't support it yet, and the utilities don't easily either. It would save me from buying an additional battery which in addition to the high cost will take up more space inside the house and is also a fire risk.

throw0101c 4y ago

> Most people with an EV will be fine with a simple 19kW AC charger in their garage. Technology Connections (of dishwasher fame) goes over why you probably need much less: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&t=28m09s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&t=28m09s