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Intel's GPUs are currently not very competitive due to the highly unreliable performance with the majority of the gaming library, which is mostly not DX12 based

Intel's GPUs are currently not very competitive due to the highly unreliable performance with the majority of the gaming library, which is mostly not DX12 based. The reviews of the ARC cards are so bad for Intel I wouldn't be surprised if the stock will soon be on sale at prices below the manufacturing cost.

bryanlarsen 4y ago
I don't know about you, but I buy my GPU's with the future in mind. I expect a GPU to last 3-5 years, so DX12 & Vulkan performance is my main consideration.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  You may not have to worry much about Vulkan too much longer. Adoption is already low and Valve's Proton is going to ensure no one bothers targeting anything but DirectX. I know I wouldn't, Valve and some open-source community is going to worry about that for me.
Retric 4y ago
Having worse performance on older games is irrelevant when it’s still 120+FPS. So only a subset of pre DX12 titles that are at issue. And of course a buyer in 6 months will likely have much better drivers which means even better performance.
- nullifidian 4y ago
  In many cases it's 80-120 FPS but with a horrific stuttering. Example: https://youtu.be/nETQGtt024k?t=10927 https://youtu.be/nETQGtt024k?t=10927
  - compsciphd 4y ago
    the horrific stuttering (I'd think) is easier to fix than simply trying to optimize the drivers to improve overall performance.
    - nottorp 4y ago
      One can hope... some people do replay older games. Or just have a huge backlog.
      - BuckRogers 4y ago
        It depends if it can be patched in drivers or has to be patched in the game. If it's the game, all bets are off. No truly popular game is abandoned though. There's even a FreeCiv. If can be done in the drivers, expect nearly every even remotely popular report coming in to eventually be fixed. This hardware is going into Intel's CPUs sooner than later. Support won't be lacking. The support for this card may dwarf AMD and Nvidia's own support. Intel is using D3D9On12 and perhaps D3D11On12. I would expect any extremely popular titles like CSGo (DX9C) and LoL (DX11 and offers a legacy DX9 mode) to get hand-tuned by Intel. For most recent games and going forward, most games target engines, not APIs. Between that trend and DX12, I expect Arc to be just fine. I can find you driver bugs with both Nvidia and AMD today. I've experienced visual bugs with both. I'm using an older branch of Nvidia's drivers right now due to stuttering that occurs on newer branches. There's no outrage because this happens all the time with GPU vendors. Intel puts out a very good dGPU and people are hyper-critical.
        nottorp 4y ago
        > There's even a FreeCiv. Well, for every FreeCiv and Devilution there are 10K other titles that no one is reimplementing.
LeifCarrotson 4y ago
The gaming library follows the market. Just because Nvidia released a high-end GPU with an extremely high-end MSRP doesn't mean that game studios will develop games for it, because most users will not be able to afford a $1600 GPU to run those games. Nvidia started development on this card before the crypto crash. This card made sense for a market in which users expected to be able to spend money to make money, it does not make sense for a market in which The Steam hardware survey says that only 0.52% of users have an RTX 3090[1]. Pasting the data [2] into a spreadsheet, some quick selection groups say that more than half of all Steam users have hardware older or less powerful than a 1080. They've all been priced out; why would you build a game that most users can't play? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=name https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=name [2] https://pastebin.com/w7rneTFc https://pastebin.com/w7rneTFc
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  The gaming market won't develop for the 4090. However, they will use the 4090 as an approximation of the performance of a 5080, 6070 and 7060 and will eventually target the 7060.
  - ls612 4y ago
    Also, in a year or two a game may target a 4060 for 1080p max settings, so you can get 1440p max settings on a 4070 (4080 12GB), 4K on a true 4080, and high refresh/RTX on a 4090 at 4K.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

I don't know about you, but I buy my GPU's with the future in mind. I expect a GPU to last 3-5 years, so DX12 & Vulkan performance is my main consideration.

BuckRogers 4y ago
You may not have to worry much about Vulkan too much longer. Adoption is already low and Valve's Proton is going to ensure no one bothers targeting anything but DirectX. I know I wouldn't, Valve and some open-source community is going to worry about that for me.

Retric 4y ago

Having worse performance on older games is irrelevant when it’s still 120+FPS. So only a subset of pre DX12 titles that are at issue. And of course a buyer in 6 months will likely have much better drivers which means even better performance.

nullifidian 4y ago
In many cases it's 80-120 FPS but with a horrific stuttering. Example: https://youtu.be/nETQGtt024k?t=10927 https://youtu.be/nETQGtt024k?t=10927
- compsciphd 4y ago
  the horrific stuttering (I'd think) is easier to fix than simply trying to optimize the drivers to improve overall performance.
  - nottorp 4y ago
    One can hope... some people do replay older games. Or just have a huge backlog.
    - BuckRogers 4y ago
      It depends if it can be patched in drivers or has to be patched in the game. If it's the game, all bets are off. No truly popular game is abandoned though. There's even a FreeCiv. If can be done in the drivers, expect nearly every even remotely popular report coming in to eventually be fixed. This hardware is going into Intel's CPUs sooner than later. Support won't be lacking. The support for this card may dwarf AMD and Nvidia's own support. Intel is using D3D9On12 and perhaps D3D11On12. I would expect any extremely popular titles like CSGo (DX9C) and LoL (DX11 and offers a legacy DX9 mode) to get hand-tuned by Intel. For most recent games and going forward, most games target engines, not APIs. Between that trend and DX12, I expect Arc to be just fine. I can find you driver bugs with both Nvidia and AMD today. I've experienced visual bugs with both. I'm using an older branch of Nvidia's drivers right now due to stuttering that occurs on newer branches. There's no outrage because this happens all the time with GPU vendors. Intel puts out a very good dGPU and people are hyper-critical.
      - nottorp 4y ago
        > There's even a FreeCiv. Well, for every FreeCiv and Devilution there are 10K other titles that no one is reimplementing.

LeifCarrotson 4y ago

The gaming library follows the market. Just because Nvidia released a high-end GPU with an extremely high-end MSRP doesn't mean that game studios will develop games for it, because most users will not be able to afford a $1600 GPU to run those games. Nvidia started development on this card before the crypto crash. This card made sense for a market in which users expected to be able to spend money to make money, it does not make sense for a market in which The Steam hardware survey says that only 0.52% of users have an RTX 3090[1]. Pasting the data [2] into a spreadsheet, some quick selection groups say that more than half of all Steam users have hardware older or less powerful than a 1080. They've all been priced out; why would you build a game that most users can't play? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=name https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=name [2] https://pastebin.com/w7rneTFc https://pastebin.com/w7rneTFc

bryanlarsen 4y ago
The gaming market won't develop for the 4090. However, they will use the 4090 as an approximation of the performance of a 5080, 6070 and 7060 and will eventually target the 7060.
- ls612 4y ago
  Also, in a year or two a game may target a 4060 for 1080p max settings, so you can get 1440p max settings on a 4070 (4080 12GB), 4K on a true 4080, and high refresh/RTX on a 4090 at 4K.