4 ms·

E-bikes are interesting because they are a hack. The way most people use E-Bikes is as an unlicensed motorbike. Every city is full of food gig-workers who need

by shubb 4y ago

E-bikes are interesting because they are a hack. The way most people use E-Bikes is as an unlicensed motorbike. Every city is full of food gig-workers who need a super cheap motorbike they can ride on the pavement. That's what they are for. If Apple made an e-bike, they'd have to follow regulations. Most people don't want a legal e-bike. They want a motorbike they don't have to insure for a very low cost. They want to go at 20 miles an hour without pedaling. Apple can't make an e-bike, just like they can't run a pirate movie website.

PopAlongKid 4y ago
>The way most people use E-Bikes is as an unlicensed motorbike Not just food delivery, but even allegedly recreational users abuse them. In the urban area where I live there is a network of paved trails that are well-used by walkers, runners, and cyclists (dozens of paved miles with some bridges or underpasses to ease crossing major streets). Even though motorized vehicles are prohibited, I'm told by the former director of the regional park district that e-bike users are able to flaunt the law because of ADA (disabled) access rules, apparently they can pretend their e-bike is just like a motorized wheelchair or scooter for a disabled person. They often zip by pedestrians from behind, squeezing through two-way traffic, never ringing a bell when passing, at relatively high speeds. I strongly believe they should have to display a license plate and be insured, and wear a helmet too. I've also considered how I might be able to carry some kind of stick or rod projecting out to my left as I walk on the right, so that they have to give me a few feet of clearance to avoid hitting it.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  > never ringing a bell when passing, at relatively high speeds. Bells are a problem because they make passing less safe at closing speeds over 2mph as people tend to react very unpredictably. When used at 0 closing speed people often interpret them as aggressive. I find the safest passing strategy on mixed paths is usually to slow to walking speed with 3m clearance until there is a grassy area or wide driveway/road/similar to pass with a wide berth, and to use the freewheel to make a bit of noise so it's not a surprise. I think the solution (in addition to reducing the number of overpowered and fast vehicles) is probably a PR campaign of some kind to encourage some kind of predictable behavior (one ring means 'please do not move I am passing owly with 2ft of clearance' or similar) > I strongly believe they should have to display a license plate and be insured, and wear a helmet too That's just conceding that shared paths and bike paths should be more like roads, and then punishing the few people doing the right thing. Actually enforce the laws that already exist, and if that's not enough make ebikes more like bikes (smaller, lighter, slower). I'm here for more LEVs (whether number plated or not), but they're not bikes, they do not belong on pedestrian paths, and adding pedals to one doesn't make it a bike. 200W or 250W power limits (as the real upper limit, not the horribly flawed test process euro standard bikes use that makes it more of a lower limit) and 15mph motor-speed limitations based on real physical design instead of software. If that's not enough, reduce the power further or make it scale down with speeds above 5mph.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Biking on the pavement is illegal in most of the world so I doubt this is what e-bikes are made for.
- shubb 4y ago
  Here in London we have cycle paths, but it's also the reality that cyclists will as a normal thing cut through pedestrian areas they are not really allowed in whereas a motorcyclist doing so would be quite likely to get tracked down via CCTV and fine. For example, there is a sort of 1 way system around Liverpool Street Station, and a motorbike will sit in the permeant traffic jam just like a car, spending 10 minutes crawling around it. A cyclist, or an e-bikist, will cut through the market square outside Spitalfields market to the other side. Google maps will tell them to do it. That is not a legal cycle path. You will do a lot of stuff on an e-bike that you wouldn't feel right doing on a motorbike.
  - wdb 4y ago
    London Police should fine all these people that drive on pavements or consider Regent's Park as their personal race track
- apeace 4y ago
  Really? I'm in the U.S. and the only place bikes are explicitly illegal is on the highways. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought bikes could take city streets and follow the rules of the road like everyone else. If there's a bike lane, use it, but otherwise behave mostly like a car (maybe giving cars a wide berth to pass you).
  - shubb 4y ago
    Depends on local laws https://www.sallymorinlaw.com/bicycle-accidents/riding-your-bike-on-the-sidewalk-even-when-it-seems-safer-in-san-francisco-is-not-legal https://www.sallymorinlaw.com/bicycle-accidents/riding-your-... My point though wasn't really about the legalities of cycling - this is a business and technology site. It was about the disadvantage very large companies have because they need to follow the law very carefully. Probably should have written that.
btbuildem 4y ago
"Pavement" means different things in different places. In North America it's the stuff roads are paved with, where all vehicles (including bicycles) are meant to go. In the UK (maybe in some other places) "pavement" is where pedestrians walk, and vehicles are prohibited.

by shubb 4y ago

PopAlongKid 4y ago

>The way most people use E-Bikes is as an unlicensed motorbike Not just food delivery, but even allegedly recreational users abuse them. In the urban area where I live there is a network of paved trails that are well-used by walkers, runners, and cyclists (dozens of paved miles with some bridges or underpasses to ease crossing major streets). Even though motorized vehicles are prohibited, I'm told by the former director of the regional park district that e-bike users are able to flaunt the law because of ADA (disabled) access rules, apparently they can pretend their e-bike is just like a motorized wheelchair or scooter for a disabled person. They often zip by pedestrians from behind, squeezing through two-way traffic, never ringing a bell when passing, at relatively high speeds. I strongly believe they should have to display a license plate and be insured, and wear a helmet too. I've also considered how I might be able to carry some kind of stick or rod projecting out to my left as I walk on the right, so that they have to give me a few feet of clearance to avoid hitting it.

Schroedingersat 4y ago
> never ringing a bell when passing, at relatively high speeds. Bells are a problem because they make passing less safe at closing speeds over 2mph as people tend to react very unpredictably. When used at 0 closing speed people often interpret them as aggressive. I find the safest passing strategy on mixed paths is usually to slow to walking speed with 3m clearance until there is a grassy area or wide driveway/road/similar to pass with a wide berth, and to use the freewheel to make a bit of noise so it's not a surprise. I think the solution (in addition to reducing the number of overpowered and fast vehicles) is probably a PR campaign of some kind to encourage some kind of predictable behavior (one ring means 'please do not move I am passing owly with 2ft of clearance' or similar) > I strongly believe they should have to display a license plate and be insured, and wear a helmet too That's just conceding that shared paths and bike paths should be more like roads, and then punishing the few people doing the right thing. Actually enforce the laws that already exist, and if that's not enough make ebikes more like bikes (smaller, lighter, slower). I'm here for more LEVs (whether number plated or not), but they're not bikes, they do not belong on pedestrian paths, and adding pedals to one doesn't make it a bike. 200W or 250W power limits (as the real upper limit, not the horribly flawed test process euro standard bikes use that makes it more of a lower limit) and 15mph motor-speed limitations based on real physical design instead of software. If that's not enough, reduce the power further or make it scale down with speeds above 5mph.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

Biking on the pavement is illegal in most of the world so I doubt this is what e-bikes are made for.

shubb 4y ago
Here in London we have cycle paths, but it's also the reality that cyclists will as a normal thing cut through pedestrian areas they are not really allowed in whereas a motorcyclist doing so would be quite likely to get tracked down via CCTV and fine. For example, there is a sort of 1 way system around Liverpool Street Station, and a motorbike will sit in the permeant traffic jam just like a car, spending 10 minutes crawling around it. A cyclist, or an e-bikist, will cut through the market square outside Spitalfields market to the other side. Google maps will tell them to do it. That is not a legal cycle path. You will do a lot of stuff on an e-bike that you wouldn't feel right doing on a motorbike.
- wdb 4y ago
  London Police should fine all these people that drive on pavements or consider Regent's Park as their personal race track
apeace 4y ago
Really? I'm in the U.S. and the only place bikes are explicitly illegal is on the highways. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought bikes could take city streets and follow the rules of the road like everyone else. If there's a bike lane, use it, but otherwise behave mostly like a car (maybe giving cars a wide berth to pass you).
- shubb 4y ago
  Depends on local laws https://www.sallymorinlaw.com/bicycle-accidents/riding-your-bike-on-the-sidewalk-even-when-it-seems-safer-in-san-francisco-is-not-legal https://www.sallymorinlaw.com/bicycle-accidents/riding-your-... My point though wasn't really about the legalities of cycling - this is a business and technology site. It was about the disadvantage very large companies have because they need to follow the law very carefully. Probably should have written that.

btbuildem 4y ago

"Pavement" means different things in different places. In North America it's the stuff roads are paved with, where all vehicles (including bicycles) are meant to go. In the UK (maybe in some other places) "pavement" is where pedestrians walk, and vehicles are prohibited.