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I think NILFS is a hidden gem. I’ve been using it exclusively in my Linux laptops, desktops etc. since ca. 2014. Apart from one kernel regression bug related to

by newcup 4y ago

I think NILFS is a hidden gem. I’ve been using it exclusively in my Linux laptops, desktops etc. since ca. 2014. Apart from one kernel regression bug related to NILFS2 it’s worked flawlessly (no data corruption even with the bug just no access to the file system; effectively it forced running older kernel while the bug was fixed). The continuous snapshotting has saved me a couple of times; I’ve just mounted a version of the file system from few hours or weeks ago to access overwritten or deleted data. I use NILFS also on backup disks to provide combined deduplication and snapshots easily (just rsync & NILFS’ mkss, latter to make sure the “checkpoints” aren’t unnoticedly garbage collected in case the backup disk gets full).

nix23 4y ago
>I think NILFS is a hidden gem. I’ve been using it exclusively in my Linux laptops, desktops etc. since ca. 2014 Yes it's really sad, there we have a native and stable check-summing fs, and nearly no one knows about it.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > check-summing fs Is it? Last I'd heard was > nilfs2 store checksums for all data. However, at least the current implementation does not verify it when reading. https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-nilfs/msg01063.html https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-nilfs/msg01063.html
  - nix23 4y ago
    Hmm you could be right, i found nothing about that it is calculated at read-time. Just with fsck.
- conradev 4y ago
  BTRFS is also a native copy on write filesystem that verifies a configurable checksum and supports snapshots. The snapshots are not automatic, but short of that it is pretty feature complete
  - nix23 4y ago
    That's why i specifically wrote -> stable...
    - 77pt77 4y ago
      BTRFS is not stable?
      - IAmPaigeAT 4y ago
        If it’s not perhaps it should be, I’ve been using it for about 10 years without any problems that I didn’t cause for myself.
  - guipsp 4y ago
    BTRFS is pretty stable nowadays.
    - nerpderp82 4y ago
      What does that mean quantifiably?
      - guipsp 4y ago
        Synology deploys it in their products
        thfuran 4y ago
        I think it's the default for suse these days.
        yellowapple 4y ago
        It is, and openSUSE's default of "create a snapshot before and after every 'zypper in' and/or 'zypper dup'" has saved my bacon on more than one occasion.
- kiririn 4y ago
  The name isn’t great, as someone unfamiliar with it, it sounds like a synonym of ‘Null FS’ and elicits thoughts of a mock filesystem for testing. In a list of filesystems I would gloss straight over it
ComputerGuru 4y ago
> Apart from one kernel regression bug related to NILFS2 it’s worked flawlessly Maybe on x86? I’ve tried repeatedly to use it on ARM for RaspberryPi where it would have been perfect, but always ran into various kernel panics as soon as the file system is mounted or accessed.
- newcup 4y ago
  True, I only have used it on x86 devices. Thanks for the heads up! I’ve heard so many stories of SD card failures (against which snapshotting might be of no help) with RaspberryPi that I’ve decided to send any valuable data promptly to safety over a network. (Though, I personally haven’t had any problems with failing SD’s.)
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I've used NILFS2 on flash storage on some old non-RPi ARMv7 hardware for a while without a problem. Switched to F2FS for performance reasons, though.
  - ComputerGuru 4y ago
    This was on the root partition, which is subjected to a lot more concurrency issues than an sd card normally would fwiw.
rodgerd 4y ago
NILFS is absolutely wonderful; it was very unfortunate that Linus chose to dub btrfs as the ext4 successor all those years ago, because it cut off a lot of interest in the plethora of interesting work that was going on at the time. A decade later and btrfs is still riddled with problems and incomplete, people are still using xfs and ext4 for lack of trust, one kernel dev has a side hobby trying to block openzfs, and excellent little projects like nilfs are largely unknown.
- perrygeo 4y ago
  > one kernel dev has a side hobby trying to block openzfs Can you elaborate?
  - E39M5S62 4y ago
    I don't know if everything has been collected in an easy-to-digest form, but GKH has gone out of his way a few times to shut out OpenZFS.
    - rodgerd 4y ago
      Exactly. Removing or changing the licensing on APIs in a way carefully targeted to break ZFS, but not affect actual proprietary drivers such as the NVidia graphics drivers.
- _kdave 4y ago
  > it was very unfortunate that Linus chose to dub btrfs as the ext4 successor That quote is from Ted T'so (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs#History) or do you have a link to Linus' quote?

by newcup 4y ago

nix23 4y ago

>I think NILFS is a hidden gem. I’ve been using it exclusively in my Linux laptops, desktops etc. since ca. 2014 Yes it's really sad, there we have a native and stable check-summing fs, and nearly no one knows about it.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> check-summing fs Is it? Last I'd heard was > nilfs2 store checksums for all data. However, at least the current implementation does not verify it when reading. https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-nilfs/msg01063.html https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-nilfs/msg01063.html
- nix23 4y ago
  Hmm you could be right, i found nothing about that it is calculated at read-time. Just with fsck.
conradev 4y ago
BTRFS is also a native copy on write filesystem that verifies a configurable checksum and supports snapshots. The snapshots are not automatic, but short of that it is pretty feature complete
- nix23 4y ago
  That's why i specifically wrote -> stable...
  - 77pt77 4y ago
    BTRFS is not stable?
    - IAmPaigeAT 4y ago
      If it’s not perhaps it should be, I’ve been using it for about 10 years without any problems that I didn’t cause for myself.
- guipsp 4y ago
  BTRFS is pretty stable nowadays.
  - nerpderp82 4y ago
    What does that mean quantifiably?
    - guipsp 4y ago
      Synology deploys it in their products
      - thfuran 4y ago
        I think it's the default for suse these days.
        yellowapple 4y ago
        It is, and openSUSE's default of "create a snapshot before and after every 'zypper in' and/or 'zypper dup'" has saved my bacon on more than one occasion.
kiririn 4y ago
The name isn’t great, as someone unfamiliar with it, it sounds like a synonym of ‘Null FS’ and elicits thoughts of a mock filesystem for testing. In a list of filesystems I would gloss straight over it

ComputerGuru 4y ago

> Apart from one kernel regression bug related to NILFS2 it’s worked flawlessly Maybe on x86? I’ve tried repeatedly to use it on ARM for RaspberryPi where it would have been perfect, but always ran into various kernel panics as soon as the file system is mounted or accessed.

newcup 4y ago
True, I only have used it on x86 devices. Thanks for the heads up! I’ve heard so many stories of SD card failures (against which snapshotting might be of no help) with RaspberryPi that I’ve decided to send any valuable data promptly to safety over a network. (Though, I personally haven’t had any problems with failing SD’s.)
heavyset_go 4y ago
I've used NILFS2 on flash storage on some old non-RPi ARMv7 hardware for a while without a problem. Switched to F2FS for performance reasons, though.
- ComputerGuru 4y ago
  This was on the root partition, which is subjected to a lot more concurrency issues than an sd card normally would fwiw.

rodgerd 4y ago

NILFS is absolutely wonderful; it was very unfortunate that Linus chose to dub btrfs as the ext4 successor all those years ago, because it cut off a lot of interest in the plethora of interesting work that was going on at the time. A decade later and btrfs is still riddled with problems and incomplete, people are still using xfs and ext4 for lack of trust, one kernel dev has a side hobby trying to block openzfs, and excellent little projects like nilfs are largely unknown.

perrygeo 4y ago
> one kernel dev has a side hobby trying to block openzfs Can you elaborate?
- E39M5S62 4y ago
  I don't know if everything has been collected in an easy-to-digest form, but GKH has gone out of his way a few times to shut out OpenZFS.
  - rodgerd 4y ago
    Exactly. Removing or changing the licensing on APIs in a way carefully targeted to break ZFS, but not affect actual proprietary drivers such as the NVidia graphics drivers.
_kdave 4y ago
> it was very unfortunate that Linus chose to dub btrfs as the ext4 successor That quote is from Ted T'so (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs#History) or do you have a link to Linus' quote?