5 ms·

> acknowledge the very existence of server-side decorations I'm pretty sure GTK supports server-side decorations.. GNOME does not however.

galangalalgol 4y ago
Rhel 8 still allows x11 as an option, does that mean it won't be getting gnome updates? My business has decided to keep x11 for the foreseeable future. I don't mind at all, I use x forwarding a lot.
- mroche 4y ago
  GNOME lifecycles in RHEL differ from other, leading-edge distributions. GNOME rebases aren't just simple API/ABI compatible minor updates, and things can break in doing so, therefore RHEL engineering wants to do them sparingly. Granted with GNOME 3.x there were quite a few rebases in RHEL 7 and RHEL 8 to fix issues and growing pains. Feature and fix backports are the preferred method for updating GNOME in RHEL, rather than complete rebases. The Xorg Server has been deprecated in RHEL, but exists in both RHEL 8 and RHEL 9 and will be maintained in those distributions for the entirety of their lifespans. It will be removed in some future version of RHEL. X11 support is provided by XWayland.
chrismorgan 4y ago
I may have worded it a little strongly (despite tempering it with the word “almost”), but hear me out. GTK will use SSD so long as you don’t customise the title bar. I think you can even query it, with effort (gdk_wayland_display_prefers_ssd, c.f. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/commit/f2adaba237519642b88ccb42b47a95cf539a2a12 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/commit/f2adaba237519642...), and thus behave differently depending on compositor preference. (But even that is mildly nerfed from the org_kde_kwin_server_decoration_manager interface, since it only exposes “prefers SSD” and not “supports SSD”—though in practice I suspect there’s no difference in any compositor.) But guess what? GTK 4 has regressed matters in this space. Fancy that. If I run gtk3-demo, as a tiled window it gets Sway SSD and an app header bar which duplicates the title (fine), but it doesn’t have the window border or shadow (good). When I float the window, it gets border (including top radii) and shadow. This is well-behaved software, not acting quite how I’d prefer it to (I want SSD even floating, even double-title-barring), but still reasonably. But gtk4-demo? It gets border and shadow (drawing outside its designated area even in tiling mode, and I’m not sure why it’s possible for it to do that) regardless of whether it’s floating or not. Progress. They’re forging ahead with ignoring the existence of SSD as far as possible even in GTK.
- bkallus 4y ago
  I just tested running gtk3-demo and gtk4-demo in sway. gtk4-demo does draw its shadows on other windows, but I wouldn't have noticed that if you hadn't brought it to my attention. Each has only the GTK title bar (no sway title bar) in both floating and tiled mode (but not full screen), which is, imo, a reasonable way for things to work.
  - chrismorgan 4y ago
    Not sure how you’re getting no Sway title bar out of it. In fact, when I run `swaymsg border csd` with the tiled gtk4-demo focused, I get “This window doesn't support client side decorations” and I have no idea what’s up with that, especially given that the window definitely gets border csd when floating. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s possible it’s related to more recent changes in Sway. I haven’t updated Sway since March (since I’ve been using the high-DPI XWayland patches and updating is comparatively bothersome). I dunno. Incidentally, I mostly use tabbed layout, and you’re always going to get server-side decorations out of that, since you’re breaking out of the rectangles mould.

galangalalgol 4y ago

Rhel 8 still allows x11 as an option, does that mean it won't be getting gnome updates? My business has decided to keep x11 for the foreseeable future. I don't mind at all, I use x forwarding a lot.

mroche 4y ago
GNOME lifecycles in RHEL differ from other, leading-edge distributions. GNOME rebases aren't just simple API/ABI compatible minor updates, and things can break in doing so, therefore RHEL engineering wants to do them sparingly. Granted with GNOME 3.x there were quite a few rebases in RHEL 7 and RHEL 8 to fix issues and growing pains. Feature and fix backports are the preferred method for updating GNOME in RHEL, rather than complete rebases. The Xorg Server has been deprecated in RHEL, but exists in both RHEL 8 and RHEL 9 and will be maintained in those distributions for the entirety of their lifespans. It will be removed in some future version of RHEL. X11 support is provided by XWayland.

chrismorgan 4y ago

I may have worded it a little strongly (despite tempering it with the word “almost”), but hear me out. GTK will use SSD so long as you don’t customise the title bar. I think you can even query it, with effort (gdk_wayland_display_prefers_ssd, c.f. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/commit/f2adaba237519642b88ccb42b47a95cf539a2a12 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/commit/f2adaba237519642...), and thus behave differently depending on compositor preference. (But even that is mildly nerfed from the org_kde_kwin_server_decoration_manager interface, since it only exposes “prefers SSD” and not “supports SSD”—though in practice I suspect there’s no difference in any compositor.) But guess what? GTK 4 has regressed matters in this space. Fancy that. If I run gtk3-demo, as a tiled window it gets Sway SSD and an app header bar which duplicates the title (fine), but it doesn’t have the window border or shadow (good). When I float the window, it gets border (including top radii) and shadow. This is well-behaved software, not acting quite how I’d prefer it to (I want SSD even floating, even double-title-barring), but still reasonably. But gtk4-demo? It gets border and shadow (drawing outside its designated area even in tiling mode, and I’m not sure why it’s possible for it to do that) regardless of whether it’s floating or not. Progress. They’re forging ahead with ignoring the existence of SSD as far as possible even in GTK.

bkallus 4y ago
I just tested running gtk3-demo and gtk4-demo in sway. gtk4-demo does draw its shadows on other windows, but I wouldn't have noticed that if you hadn't brought it to my attention. Each has only the GTK title bar (no sway title bar) in both floating and tiled mode (but not full screen), which is, imo, a reasonable way for things to work.
- chrismorgan 4y ago
  Not sure how you’re getting no Sway title bar out of it. In fact, when I run `swaymsg border csd` with the tiled gtk4-demo focused, I get “This window doesn't support client side decorations” and I have no idea what’s up with that, especially given that the window definitely gets border csd when floating. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s possible it’s related to more recent changes in Sway. I haven’t updated Sway since March (since I’ve been using the high-DPI XWayland patches and updating is comparatively bothersome). I dunno. Incidentally, I mostly use tabbed layout, and you’re always going to get server-side decorations out of that, since you’re breaking out of the rectangles mould.