6 ms·

The takeaway for me is this: Android and iOS' creators made different tradeoffs in their UI programming. The iOS creators, overall, correctly predicted that a f

by sedev 15y ago

The takeaway for me is this: Android and iOS' creators made different tradeoffs in their UI programming. The iOS creators, overall, correctly predicted that a fast, smooth, responsive UI was something that users would care about enough that it was okay to pay a performance cost in other areas in order to make the UI as responsive as it is on iOS devices. Android's creators made a different tradeoff, and the UI on Android devices showed clearly - and continues to show - the problems with that tradeoff.

andrewmunn 15y ago
This is correct. However, the Android team made their decision with the assumption that Android would power keyboard and trackball devices. That was never the case, so they made the wrong decision based on a faulty premise.
- YooLi 15y ago
  I don't know about saying "That was never the case...". At the time the decision was made, a blackberry-style device was indeed the target. The problem was when the target shifted to iPhone instead.
- untog 15y ago
  Android would power keyboard and trackball devices. That was never the case Er, there are a lot of Android devices that are keyboard and trackball powered.
  - msh 15y ago
    I think he meant to say kb devices without touch screens.
daniel_solano 15y ago
I think it the takeaway is slightly different: When many of Android's fundamental design decisions were made, specifically making UI animations take place in a normally-scheduled application thread, the prime competition/inspiration was the keyboard- and trackpad-driven interfaces of competitors such as Blackberry. Apple, on the other hand, decided that a touch-based interface was the way to go. As such, Apple designed iOS to make rendering in a special, real-time priority thread to ensure responsiveness.
- perssontm 15y ago
  The interesting thing would be an estimate of the amount of work needed to move the android ui-rendering to its separate real-time thread. Would it even be realistically possible?
- yardie 15y ago
  If this is true than it blows a hole in the assumption that Android was designed with a touchscreen in mind.
  - checker 15y ago
    It wasn't: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9869123-7.html?tag=mncol;txt http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9869123-7.html?tag=mncol;t...
interlagos 15y ago
How was the iOS decision more "correct"? Android is clearly succeeding despite the lack of UI refinement, so it's hard to hold one as victorious. There is definitely a different philosophy, though. The Android approach was that it was better to be correct -- if you scroll a page or a webpage, that what scrolls into the viewport needs to be correct, while iOS happily scrolled in a checkerboard. I prefer the stock Android approach (some devices, such as the GS II, sub in the "better to be fast" approach, giving smoother superficial interactivity) so long as there is enough hardware that the result isn't too painful.
- illumin8 15y ago
  The iOS decision was more correct because it has proven itself in the marketplace. Consumers overwhelmingly demand touch interfaces on their smartphones and tablets, as opposed to stylus, trackball, or any other that has come before it. Android started as a platform trying to out-Blackberry RIM. When the iPhone was released in 2007 they switched to a model of trying to out-do iOS.
  - interlagos 15y ago
    That wasn't at all the focus of the comment that I replied to. I get that you're on this "keyboard/trackball" thing (sidenote -- did you know that Android devices still come out with keyboards and trackballs?), however the difference between the two platforms is largely simple architectural differences having nothing to do with form factor.
  - ajross 15y ago
    "Proven itself" how, exactly? Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS. Now, there's room for argument here about what the proper design is for a mobile OS. But if you're going to support your platform flamage with statements like "Consumers overwhelmingly demand" you need to synchronize the argument with the facts.
    - randomdata 15y ago
      "Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS." Source? There have been many reports of Android phones outselling the iPhone, but I am not familiar with the ones about Android devices outselling iOS devices (iPod touch, iPad, etc.)
wvenable 15y ago
Apple is also willing to put a lot of burden on the developers. Having a separate UI thread is more difficult than doing all rendering in the main application thread. Supporting only native code without garbage collection is also more difficult on developers too.
- calloc 15y ago
  Except that all UI stuff is done in the applications main thread ...
gnaffle 15y ago
I'm not so sure that the iOS creators predicted anything. They started off with OS X, which already had a smooth, responsive, GPU backed UI (Cocoa/Quartz Extreme). I don't think that they had to compromise on performance, but they did have to spend extra money on a GPU. Likewise, a good low latency sound system with MIDI support was added to iOS not because Apple correctly predicted that smartphones and tablets would be popular for music production, but because those were features already present in OSX. AFAIK, the Android designers started out making a Blackberry clone, and creating a similar software stack would have been a lot more work at a time when the competitors were all running 2D GUIs with no GPU acceleration or fancy animations.

by sedev 15y ago

andrewmunn 15y ago

This is correct. However, the Android team made their decision with the assumption that Android would power keyboard and trackball devices. That was never the case, so they made the wrong decision based on a faulty premise.

YooLi 15y ago
I don't know about saying "That was never the case...". At the time the decision was made, a blackberry-style device was indeed the target. The problem was when the target shifted to iPhone instead.
untog 15y ago
Android would power keyboard and trackball devices. That was never the case Er, there are a lot of Android devices that are keyboard and trackball powered.
- msh 15y ago
  I think he meant to say kb devices without touch screens.

daniel_solano 15y ago

I think it the takeaway is slightly different: When many of Android's fundamental design decisions were made, specifically making UI animations take place in a normally-scheduled application thread, the prime competition/inspiration was the keyboard- and trackpad-driven interfaces of competitors such as Blackberry. Apple, on the other hand, decided that a touch-based interface was the way to go. As such, Apple designed iOS to make rendering in a special, real-time priority thread to ensure responsiveness.

perssontm 15y ago
The interesting thing would be an estimate of the amount of work needed to move the android ui-rendering to its separate real-time thread. Would it even be realistically possible?
yardie 15y ago
If this is true than it blows a hole in the assumption that Android was designed with a touchscreen in mind.
- checker 15y ago
  It wasn't: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9869123-7.html?tag=mncol;txt http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9869123-7.html?tag=mncol;t...

interlagos 15y ago

How was the iOS decision more "correct"? Android is clearly succeeding despite the lack of UI refinement, so it's hard to hold one as victorious. There is definitely a different philosophy, though. The Android approach was that it was better to be correct -- if you scroll a page or a webpage, that what scrolls into the viewport needs to be correct, while iOS happily scrolled in a checkerboard. I prefer the stock Android approach (some devices, such as the GS II, sub in the "better to be fast" approach, giving smoother superficial interactivity) so long as there is enough hardware that the result isn't too painful.

illumin8 15y ago
The iOS decision was more correct because it has proven itself in the marketplace. Consumers overwhelmingly demand touch interfaces on their smartphones and tablets, as opposed to stylus, trackball, or any other that has come before it. Android started as a platform trying to out-Blackberry RIM. When the iPhone was released in 2007 they switched to a model of trying to out-do iOS.
- interlagos 15y ago
  That wasn't at all the focus of the comment that I replied to. I get that you're on this "keyboard/trackball" thing (sidenote -- did you know that Android devices still come out with keyboards and trackballs?), however the difference between the two platforms is largely simple architectural differences having nothing to do with form factor.
- ajross 15y ago
  "Proven itself" how, exactly? Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS. Now, there's room for argument here about what the proper design is for a mobile OS. But if you're going to support your platform flamage with statements like "Consumers overwhelmingly demand" you need to synchronize the argument with the facts.
  - randomdata 15y ago
    "Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS." Source? There have been many reports of Android phones outselling the iPhone, but I am not familiar with the ones about Android devices outselling iOS devices (iPod touch, iPad, etc.)

wvenable 15y ago

Apple is also willing to put a lot of burden on the developers. Having a separate UI thread is more difficult than doing all rendering in the main application thread. Supporting only native code without garbage collection is also more difficult on developers too.

calloc 15y ago
Except that all UI stuff is done in the applications main thread ...

gnaffle 15y ago

I'm not so sure that the iOS creators predicted anything. They started off with OS X, which already had a smooth, responsive, GPU backed UI (Cocoa/Quartz Extreme). I don't think that they had to compromise on performance, but they did have to spend extra money on a GPU. Likewise, a good low latency sound system with MIDI support was added to iOS not because Apple correctly predicted that smartphones and tablets would be popular for music production, but because those were features already present in OSX. AFAIK, the Android designers started out making a Blackberry clone, and creating a similar software stack would have been a lot more work at a time when the competitors were all running 2D GUIs with no GPU acceleration or fancy animations.