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"One meal per day" probably won't cut it. I think the idea here is that: 1. you have to do resistance training (lifting weights) 2. you need to consume enough

by 988747 4y ago

"One meal per day" probably won't cut it. I think the idea here is that: 1. you have to do resistance training (lifting weights) 2. you need to consume enough protein so that it can be used to build the muscle mass (100-150g per day) 3. you limit calorie intake by skipping carbohydrates and fats - this is what your body fat can easily replace. You probably cannot limit yourself to just one meal per day, or skipping eating some days - your body being in the "fasting mode" is the opposite of "muscle building mode". another problem here is: high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Some testosterone-boosting supplements, like zinc might be useful here.

FartyMcFarter 4y ago
Sounds about right. Regarding point 3, 1500 kcal per day leaves more than enough budget to have some fats and carbs - 150g of protein is only 600 kcal. > high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Anecdotally speaking, I was able to gain muscle / increase strength just fine when I started dieting, and I was definitely above 30% fat. Even if this isn't the case, the fat should melt away quickly on a good diet, so it probably isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  For what it's worth, are you sure you were gaining muscle and not just gaining strength? There are many possible strength-gaining adaptations that can happen in an individual who is gaining no muscle. Actually gaining lean body mass while losing weight is very unlikely. It requires a very untrained, overweight individual with a relatively modest caloric deficit.
  - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
    I can't prove that I was gaining muscle, but it sure looked like I was. It's not particularly rare either, there are many sources out there debunking the idea that gaining muscle requires gaining weight. This video cites some: https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 Even if I had only been gaining strength, that's still a good thing. So in practice this doesn't change the fact that it's a good idea to train while dieting.
    - notyourday 4y ago
      Muscle gaining requires quite a bit of protein. It is not very difficult to constantly get enough protein in a non-vegan diet while consuming only 1500 calories even on OMAD. It is far more difficult to accomplish with a vegan diet on OMAD or IF cycle while only consuming 1500 calories.
      - hombre_fatal 4y ago
        It’s not so hard with protein powder. My powder would give me 100g protein in 440 calories. That leaves just over 1000 calories to eat nutrient dense foods like broccoli and foods that bring even more protein. (Just for fun, 1000cal of kale/broccoli aka 3kg fills all nutrient bars in cronometer except b12 and d3 and it has 70-90g protein) Though i’m also not very convinced that we need nearly as much protein as broscientists think. If you aren’t jacked and you can’t grow on 100g protein per day at 200lbs, you aren’t covering enough of your max effort at the gym. Most people make that mistake and do grow no matter how much protein their ingest.
        hedora 4y ago
        People with low muscle mass definitely don't need 440 calories of protein shake a day to gain muscle. I was getting great results with about 110 calories worth 30 minutes after exercising (25-30g? "1 scoop" at any rate) plus creatine. I simultaneously lost a lot of fat according to the fat percentage scale at the supplement store.
  - ivanhoe 4y ago
    > It requires a very untrained, overweight individual with a relatively modest caloric deficit. It's hard to say because many overweight people already have a significant muscle mass, just those muscles are underused and hidden under the fat. When one starts to exercise and looses some weight their muscles' volume will increase with a better blood flow, and will get the proper shape and also become more prominent with less fat over them, but they'll probably not actually increase the muscle mass itself - it's just that we're now able to see them better.
scheveningen 4y ago
Anecdata here but a few months ago I started eating "one meal every other day" (a massive ribeye with butter and eggs. i have no idea what the calories or protein or whatever are.). I had been strength training for a while without dietary control. I'm severely obese. Significantly less so than I was when I started fasting, but still over 35 BMI. I think I've gained a small amount of muscle? It's definitely slowed down since before I was fasting, but lifts are progressing still. It may just be skill progression but these are simple lifts that I'm pretty familiar with (overhead press and deadlift), and I feel like I'm still gaining real strength. I don't know how to judge muscle size really, especially since I'm losing body fat which is obviously making them look more pronounced. I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900.
- notyourday 4y ago
  > I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900. That's basically a PED for your condition. That + protein + muscle load from lifting means you will be gaining muscle and losing fat as long as you engage in a progressive overload ( which is much easier to do with T boosters ).

by 988747 4y ago

FartyMcFarter 4y ago

Sounds about right. Regarding point 3, 1500 kcal per day leaves more than enough budget to have some fats and carbs - 150g of protein is only 600 kcal. > high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Anecdotally speaking, I was able to gain muscle / increase strength just fine when I started dieting, and I was definitely above 30% fat. Even if this isn't the case, the fat should melt away quickly on a good diet, so it probably isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Enginerrrd 4y ago
For what it's worth, are you sure you were gaining muscle and not just gaining strength? There are many possible strength-gaining adaptations that can happen in an individual who is gaining no muscle. Actually gaining lean body mass while losing weight is very unlikely. It requires a very untrained, overweight individual with a relatively modest caloric deficit.
- FartyMcFarter 4y ago
  I can't prove that I was gaining muscle, but it sure looked like I was. It's not particularly rare either, there are many sources out there debunking the idea that gaining muscle requires gaining weight. This video cites some: https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 Even if I had only been gaining strength, that's still a good thing. So in practice this doesn't change the fact that it's a good idea to train while dieting.
  - notyourday 4y ago
    Muscle gaining requires quite a bit of protein. It is not very difficult to constantly get enough protein in a non-vegan diet while consuming only 1500 calories even on OMAD. It is far more difficult to accomplish with a vegan diet on OMAD or IF cycle while only consuming 1500 calories.
    - hombre_fatal 4y ago
      It’s not so hard with protein powder. My powder would give me 100g protein in 440 calories. That leaves just over 1000 calories to eat nutrient dense foods like broccoli and foods that bring even more protein. (Just for fun, 1000cal of kale/broccoli aka 3kg fills all nutrient bars in cronometer except b12 and d3 and it has 70-90g protein) Though i’m also not very convinced that we need nearly as much protein as broscientists think. If you aren’t jacked and you can’t grow on 100g protein per day at 200lbs, you aren’t covering enough of your max effort at the gym. Most people make that mistake and do grow no matter how much protein their ingest.
      - hedora 4y ago
        People with low muscle mass definitely don't need 440 calories of protein shake a day to gain muscle. I was getting great results with about 110 calories worth 30 minutes after exercising (25-30g? "1 scoop" at any rate) plus creatine. I simultaneously lost a lot of fat according to the fat percentage scale at the supplement store.
- ivanhoe 4y ago
  > It requires a very untrained, overweight individual with a relatively modest caloric deficit. It's hard to say because many overweight people already have a significant muscle mass, just those muscles are underused and hidden under the fat. When one starts to exercise and looses some weight their muscles' volume will increase with a better blood flow, and will get the proper shape and also become more prominent with less fat over them, but they'll probably not actually increase the muscle mass itself - it's just that we're now able to see them better.

scheveningen 4y ago

Anecdata here but a few months ago I started eating "one meal every other day" (a massive ribeye with butter and eggs. i have no idea what the calories or protein or whatever are.). I had been strength training for a while without dietary control. I'm severely obese. Significantly less so than I was when I started fasting, but still over 35 BMI. I think I've gained a small amount of muscle? It's definitely slowed down since before I was fasting, but lifts are progressing still. It may just be skill progression but these are simple lifts that I'm pretty familiar with (overhead press and deadlift), and I feel like I'm still gaining real strength. I don't know how to judge muscle size really, especially since I'm losing body fat which is obviously making them look more pronounced. I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900.

notyourday 4y ago
> I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900. That's basically a PED for your condition. That + protein + muscle load from lifting means you will be gaining muscle and losing fat as long as you engage in a progressive overload ( which is much easier to do with T boosters ).