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If your body fat percentage is high enough (25% or more for example) it is even possible to gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Many studies have shown it's possi

If your body fat percentage is high enough (25% or more for example) it is even possible to gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Many studies have shown it's possible to lose fat while gaining muscle for such individuals. I'm not sure about the "one meal per day" part though - not sure if there are studies for that combined with a calorie deficit. The lower your body fat percentage is, the harder it is to diet without losing muscle.

988747 4y ago
"One meal per day" probably won't cut it. I think the idea here is that: 1. you have to do resistance training (lifting weights) 2. you need to consume enough protein so that it can be used to build the muscle mass (100-150g per day) 3. you limit calorie intake by skipping carbohydrates and fats - this is what your body fat can easily replace. You probably cannot limit yourself to just one meal per day, or skipping eating some days - your body being in the "fasting mode" is the opposite of "muscle building mode". another problem here is: high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Some testosterone-boosting supplements, like zinc might be useful here.
- FartyMcFarter 4y ago
  Sounds about right. Regarding point 3, 1500 kcal per day leaves more than enough budget to have some fats and carbs - 150g of protein is only 600 kcal. > high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Anecdotally speaking, I was able to gain muscle / increase strength just fine when I started dieting, and I was definitely above 30% fat. Even if this isn't the case, the fat should melt away quickly on a good diet, so it probably isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
  - Enginerrrd 4y ago
    For what it's worth, are you sure you were gaining muscle and not just gaining strength? There are many possible strength-gaining adaptations that can happen in an individual who is gaining no muscle. Actually gaining lean body mass while losing weight is very unlikely. It requires a very untrained, overweight individual with a relatively modest caloric deficit.
    - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
      I can't prove that I was gaining muscle, but it sure looked like I was. It's not particularly rare either, there are many sources out there debunking the idea that gaining muscle requires gaining weight. This video cites some: https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 Even if I had only been gaining strength, that's still a good thing. So in practice this doesn't change the fact that it's a good idea to train while dieting.
      - notyourday 4y ago
        Muscle gaining requires quite a bit of protein. It is not very difficult to constantly get enough protein in a non-vegan diet while consuming only 1500 calories even on OMAD. It is far more difficult to accomplish with a vegan diet on OMAD or IF cycle while only consuming 1500 calories.
        hombre_fatal 4y ago
        It’s not so hard with protein powder. My powder would give me 100g protein in 440 calories. That leaves just over 1000 calories to eat nutrient dense foods like broccoli and foods that bring even more protein. (Just for fun, 1000cal of kale/broccoli aka 3kg fills all nutrient bars in cronometer except b12 and d3 and it has 70-90g protein) Though i’m also not very convinced that we need nearly as much protein as broscientists think. If you aren’t jacked and you can’t grow on 100g protein per day at 200lbs, you aren’t covering enough of your max effort at the gym. Most people make that mistake and do grow no matter how much protein their ingest.
        hedora 4y ago
        People with low muscle mass definitely don't need 440 calories of protein shake a day to gain muscle. I was getting great results with about 110 calories worth 30 minutes after exercising (25-30g? "1 scoop" at any rate) plus creatine. I simultaneously lost a lot of fat according to the fat percentage scale at the supplement store.
    - 4y ago
- scheveningen 4y ago
  Anecdata here but a few months ago I started eating "one meal every other day" (a massive ribeye with butter and eggs. i have no idea what the calories or protein or whatever are.). I had been strength training for a while without dietary control. I'm severely obese. Significantly less so than I was when I started fasting, but still over 35 BMI. I think I've gained a small amount of muscle? It's definitely slowed down since before I was fasting, but lifts are progressing still. It may just be skill progression but these are simple lifts that I'm pretty familiar with (overhead press and deadlift), and I feel like I'm still gaining real strength. I don't know how to judge muscle size really, especially since I'm losing body fat which is obviously making them look more pronounced. I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900.
  - notyourday 4y ago
    > I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900. That's basically a PED for your condition. That + protein + muscle load from lifting means you will be gaining muscle and losing fat as long as you engage in a progressive overload ( which is much easier to do with T boosters ).
notyourday 4y ago
> If your body fat percentage is high enough (25% or more for example) it is even possible to gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Many studies have shown it's possible to lose fat while gaining muscle for such individuals. Being a vegan it is very difficult to get enough protein needed to maintain the existing muscle mass, not to mention grow muscles at 1500 calories per day. That's below base for most men even with a lifestyle that does not include anything other than NEAT.
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  What's NEAT?
  - notyourday 4y ago
    All the energy needed for non-exercise activity i.e. eating (edit: muscle movement needed to eat such as lifting a spoon, not the process of digesting), scratching your head, typing on a keyboard, yawning, etc
  - solarengineer 4y ago
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12468415/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12468415/ Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT)
nonameiguess 4y ago
Given the goal is lifespan extension, the implication seems to be the person is trying to do this for an entire lifetime. You can't eat at a calorie deficit in the long term without starving at some point, so that means 1500 KCal at some point has to be equal to your TDEE. There is no way to get that low permanently while having any meaningful amount of muscle. The comment below claiming TDEE of 1900 for a 190 lb "active" male is interesting. I currently use the Macro Factor App to track meals and TDEE, make everything from scratch from raw ingredients, weigh and measure absolutely everything, including any cooking oil, so the estimates are good as you can get without checking into a metabolic ward, and I'm a 41 year-old male who currently weights 187 lbs and my TDEE is roughly 2900. That's at an activity level of lifting for 60-90 minutes 6 days a week, walking usually one to three hours a day at a pretty leisurely pace, usually while listening to a podcast or playing Pokemon Go, and I live in a four-story house so walk up and down stairs quite a bit. The famous study on Amish body composition and activity levels had them at an average of 18000 steps and 9% body fat, and they were eating ungodly amounts of food, pounds of potato and grain, upwards of 4000 KCal a day in most cases. I suspect what a western white collar worker considers "active" is skewed a bit. I doubt there were many pre-industrial adults outside of nobility who got by on 1500 a day. Maybe some had no choice during a very harsh winter, but not as an everyday thing for years.

988747 4y ago

"One meal per day" probably won't cut it. I think the idea here is that: 1. you have to do resistance training (lifting weights) 2. you need to consume enough protein so that it can be used to build the muscle mass (100-150g per day) 3. you limit calorie intake by skipping carbohydrates and fats - this is what your body fat can easily replace. You probably cannot limit yourself to just one meal per day, or skipping eating some days - your body being in the "fasting mode" is the opposite of "muscle building mode". another problem here is: high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Some testosterone-boosting supplements, like zinc might be useful here.

FartyMcFarter 4y ago
Sounds about right. Regarding point 3, 1500 kcal per day leaves more than enough budget to have some fats and carbs - 150g of protein is only 600 kcal. > high fat percentage lowers the testosterone levels, which is not great for gaining muscle. Anecdotally speaking, I was able to gain muscle / increase strength just fine when I started dieting, and I was definitely above 30% fat. Even if this isn't the case, the fat should melt away quickly on a good diet, so it probably isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  For what it's worth, are you sure you were gaining muscle and not just gaining strength? There are many possible strength-gaining adaptations that can happen in an individual who is gaining no muscle. Actually gaining lean body mass while losing weight is very unlikely. It requires a very untrained, overweight individual with a relatively modest caloric deficit.
  - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
    I can't prove that I was gaining muscle, but it sure looked like I was. It's not particularly rare either, there are many sources out there debunking the idea that gaining muscle requires gaining weight. This video cites some: https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 https://youtu.be/wkBtHOBmpb0 Even if I had only been gaining strength, that's still a good thing. So in practice this doesn't change the fact that it's a good idea to train while dieting.
    - notyourday 4y ago
      Muscle gaining requires quite a bit of protein. It is not very difficult to constantly get enough protein in a non-vegan diet while consuming only 1500 calories even on OMAD. It is far more difficult to accomplish with a vegan diet on OMAD or IF cycle while only consuming 1500 calories.
      - hombre_fatal 4y ago
        It’s not so hard with protein powder. My powder would give me 100g protein in 440 calories. That leaves just over 1000 calories to eat nutrient dense foods like broccoli and foods that bring even more protein. (Just for fun, 1000cal of kale/broccoli aka 3kg fills all nutrient bars in cronometer except b12 and d3 and it has 70-90g protein) Though i’m also not very convinced that we need nearly as much protein as broscientists think. If you aren’t jacked and you can’t grow on 100g protein per day at 200lbs, you aren’t covering enough of your max effort at the gym. Most people make that mistake and do grow no matter how much protein their ingest.
        hedora 4y ago
        People with low muscle mass definitely don't need 440 calories of protein shake a day to gain muscle. I was getting great results with about 110 calories worth 30 minutes after exercising (25-30g? "1 scoop" at any rate) plus creatine. I simultaneously lost a lot of fat according to the fat percentage scale at the supplement store.
  - 4y ago
scheveningen 4y ago
Anecdata here but a few months ago I started eating "one meal every other day" (a massive ribeye with butter and eggs. i have no idea what the calories or protein or whatever are.). I had been strength training for a while without dietary control. I'm severely obese. Significantly less so than I was when I started fasting, but still over 35 BMI. I think I've gained a small amount of muscle? It's definitely slowed down since before I was fasting, but lifts are progressing still. It may just be skill progression but these are simple lifts that I'm pretty familiar with (overhead press and deadlift), and I feel like I'm still gaining real strength. I don't know how to judge muscle size really, especially since I'm losing body fat which is obviously making them look more pronounced. I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900.
- notyourday 4y ago
  > I do take one "testosterone-boosting 'supplement'" (the main one). I've been running a test level of around 900. That's basically a PED for your condition. That + protein + muscle load from lifting means you will be gaining muscle and losing fat as long as you engage in a progressive overload ( which is much easier to do with T boosters ).

notyourday 4y ago

> If your body fat percentage is high enough (25% or more for example) it is even possible to gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Many studies have shown it's possible to lose fat while gaining muscle for such individuals. Being a vegan it is very difficult to get enough protein needed to maintain the existing muscle mass, not to mention grow muscles at 1500 calories per day. That's below base for most men even with a lifestyle that does not include anything other than NEAT.

Enginerrrd 4y ago
What's NEAT?
- notyourday 4y ago
  All the energy needed for non-exercise activity i.e. eating (edit: muscle movement needed to eat such as lifting a spoon, not the process of digesting), scratching your head, typing on a keyboard, yawning, etc
- solarengineer 4y ago
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12468415/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12468415/ Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT)

nonameiguess 4y ago

Given the goal is lifespan extension, the implication seems to be the person is trying to do this for an entire lifetime. You can't eat at a calorie deficit in the long term without starving at some point, so that means 1500 KCal at some point has to be equal to your TDEE. There is no way to get that low permanently while having any meaningful amount of muscle. The comment below claiming TDEE of 1900 for a 190 lb "active" male is interesting. I currently use the Macro Factor App to track meals and TDEE, make everything from scratch from raw ingredients, weigh and measure absolutely everything, including any cooking oil, so the estimates are good as you can get without checking into a metabolic ward, and I'm a 41 year-old male who currently weights 187 lbs and my TDEE is roughly 2900. That's at an activity level of lifting for 60-90 minutes 6 days a week, walking usually one to three hours a day at a pretty leisurely pace, usually while listening to a podcast or playing Pokemon Go, and I live in a four-story house so walk up and down stairs quite a bit. The famous study on Amish body composition and activity levels had them at an average of 18000 steps and 9% body fat, and they were eating ungodly amounts of food, pounds of potato and grain, upwards of 4000 KCal a day in most cases. I suspect what a western white collar worker considers "active" is skewed a bit. I doubt there were many pre-industrial adults outside of nobility who got by on 1500 a day. Maybe some had no choice during a very harsh winter, but not as an everyday thing for years.