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Workhouses used to be a thing until the mid 19 hundreds. Apart from the obvious human rights issues it did not work very well. Because the homeless are usuall

Workhouses used to be a thing until the mid 19 hundreds. Apart from the obvious human rights issues it did not work very well. Because the homeless are usually homeless for a reason and that does not go away if you put them in a prison and force them to do some mindless menial task.

zo1 4y ago
But there has to be a humane inbetween. Why is it so horrible to try provide them a padded version of the real world? So they can get help and have a meaningful existence at the same time. Not a labor camp of course, but a place where they can have meaning instead of being kept alive on "life support".
- AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
  So what do we do with the person who urinates in his own piece of housing? He's certainly mentally ill, but urinating in private place does not usually qualify as direct danger to the society, so no forced treatment can be applied. What's next?
  - stuaxo 4y ago
    Help for mental health issues.
    - AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
      Okay, you offer help, the person tells you to fuck off. Very few mentally ill people realize they need help.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Provide him a piss-proof house. It can be small, but make the entire thing a bathroom/shower that can be hosed off. And every month or so hose it off for him. The percentage of people who would actually continue to do so is small, but would be provided for. Anyone else in a similar house could just use the toilet.
        dpbriggs 4y ago
        There's a human rights concern leaving them in to wallow in their filth. Nevermind the expensive and depressing reality of dumping them in some strange tiled house. I also can't imagine them appreciating strangers forcing themselves in to spray everything. I think OP was trying to get at the sad reality where severe mental illness is treated with some sort of loss in agency. You're still forcing some sort of solution they may not want and may work to sabotage. You could advocate for encompassing services (e.g. regular visits from a nurse) but you'll quickly arrive at modern psychiatric facilities if for no other reason than scale and cost.
- LordHeini 4y ago
  If imprisonment and force is used which the article implies there is no "in between". There is nothing wrong with programs helping people out of homelessness (exploitative forced labor is no such thing). Keep in mind that a lot of people getting out of homelessness can be really hard to achieve. Usually because of the involvement of multiple problems like drug abuse (alcohol whatever...) and psychological or other health issues. These are individual, need proper treatment and sometimes there is nothing one can do about it. For example in France and Germany there are institutions for long term alcoholics who have given up and are basically allowed to drink under supervision until they die. They are provided housing, food, health care and (regulated) alcohol. It sounds weird but is way more humane than having them living on the streets with all the issues this entails. Is your private for-profit workhouse willing and able to properly provide for those people too?
  - hikingsimulator 4y ago
    What are you refering to wrt France and Germany? I have never heard of those despite living there.
    - LordHeini 4y ago
      An example in Germany: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Trinken-im-Pflegeheim-Ein-Zuhause-fuer-Suechtige,sucht242.html https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Trinken-im-Pflegeheim... I think have a seen something similar from France i am sure similar institutions exists elsewhere too. As i said drinking is supervised and from what i could gather that even keeps the most extreme excesses in check.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    There’s a program like that in Seattle that has been running for a couple decades now, very successfully. Some of the people who live there even get sober eventually and move out. Most people have never heard of it, even locals. https://crosscut.com/2019/09/after-15-years-seattles-radical-experiment-no-barrier-housing-still-saving-lives https://crosscut.com/2019/09/after-15-years-seattles-radical...

zo1 4y ago

But there has to be a humane inbetween. Why is it so horrible to try provide them a padded version of the real world? So they can get help and have a meaningful existence at the same time. Not a labor camp of course, but a place where they can have meaning instead of being kept alive on "life support".

AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
So what do we do with the person who urinates in his own piece of housing? He's certainly mentally ill, but urinating in private place does not usually qualify as direct danger to the society, so no forced treatment can be applied. What's next?
- stuaxo 4y ago
  Help for mental health issues.
  - AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
    Okay, you offer help, the person tells you to fuck off. Very few mentally ill people realize they need help.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Provide him a piss-proof house. It can be small, but make the entire thing a bathroom/shower that can be hosed off. And every month or so hose it off for him. The percentage of people who would actually continue to do so is small, but would be provided for. Anyone else in a similar house could just use the toilet.
      - dpbriggs 4y ago
        There's a human rights concern leaving them in to wallow in their filth. Nevermind the expensive and depressing reality of dumping them in some strange tiled house. I also can't imagine them appreciating strangers forcing themselves in to spray everything. I think OP was trying to get at the sad reality where severe mental illness is treated with some sort of loss in agency. You're still forcing some sort of solution they may not want and may work to sabotage. You could advocate for encompassing services (e.g. regular visits from a nurse) but you'll quickly arrive at modern psychiatric facilities if for no other reason than scale and cost.
LordHeini 4y ago
If imprisonment and force is used which the article implies there is no "in between". There is nothing wrong with programs helping people out of homelessness (exploitative forced labor is no such thing). Keep in mind that a lot of people getting out of homelessness can be really hard to achieve. Usually because of the involvement of multiple problems like drug abuse (alcohol whatever...) and psychological or other health issues. These are individual, need proper treatment and sometimes there is nothing one can do about it. For example in France and Germany there are institutions for long term alcoholics who have given up and are basically allowed to drink under supervision until they die. They are provided housing, food, health care and (regulated) alcohol. It sounds weird but is way more humane than having them living on the streets with all the issues this entails. Is your private for-profit workhouse willing and able to properly provide for those people too?
- hikingsimulator 4y ago
  What are you refering to wrt France and Germany? I have never heard of those despite living there.
  - LordHeini 4y ago
    An example in Germany: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Trinken-im-Pflegeheim-Ein-Zuhause-fuer-Suechtige,sucht242.html https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Trinken-im-Pflegeheim... I think have a seen something similar from France i am sure similar institutions exists elsewhere too. As i said drinking is supervised and from what i could gather that even keeps the most extreme excesses in check.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  There’s a program like that in Seattle that has been running for a couple decades now, very successfully. Some of the people who live there even get sober eventually and move out. Most people have never heard of it, even locals. https://crosscut.com/2019/09/after-15-years-seattles-radical-experiment-no-barrier-housing-still-saving-lives https://crosscut.com/2019/09/after-15-years-seattles-radical...